Lindz Four Departure

[XTW]

Yep, if I was looking to violate guys at Aspen, I'd simply ramp check the guys after landing and have them show me what their approach climb capability was.

'Sled

BINGO!!! A lot of guys never even think of that!



X

 

[temcgrew]

were are the regs that require it for 135 and not part 91?

 

[ksu_aviator]

Part 135, Subpart I

Pick your airplane

http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text/text-idx?c=ecfr&sid=6ebff3f1946e77761c950167f186a800&rgn=div5&view=text&node=14:2.0.1.4.23&idno=14#14:2.0.1.4.23.9

 

[temcgrew]

Thanks, I have been looking thru their and found the 135 regs, but none for 91. I flew 135 mainly out of ASE so I guess that's were my thoughts were coming from.

Thanks!

 

[Rythm3]

Reread what you posted... "This SID requires the following takeoff minimums: 3100-3 OR 1000-2 with..." So yes, if you have 3100-3 then legally you can take off with a 3.3% gradient.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you have 3100-3, can't you takeoff with only a 2.4% gradient? I thought the 3.3% (200 ft/nm) was only for departing when it's IFR, but the 460 ft/nm supercedes the 200 ft/nm requirement when the weather is lower than 3100 - 3.

 

[Bandit60]

Contact Jeppesen Ops Planning for the chart. They work it up for your particular airplane. The climb gradient requirements are based on all engine operation. Period. The Under 135 you have to be able to maintain the required gradient with the loss of an engine OR have an alternate (escape) procedure available. There is no such requirement for 91, but common sense and the desire to be able to remain in the gene pool dictates that non-commercial operators operate to the same standards.
Sled

Well said! I will be honest with you. I dont take out of ASE unless i can see the tops of all the peaks of the mountains in that area.

 

[LXJ31]

I believe that under 135 if you want to use alternate departure procedures, it must be incorporated into your training program. I think they popped few people for using alternate procedures that they basically photocopied from other crews.

 

[fly4kix]

Well said! I will be honest with you. I dont take out of ASE unless i can see the tops of all the peaks of the mountains in that area.

Amen brother!!! nor will we continue if we don't have the airport in sight over DBL

 

[MauleSkinner]

Hmm, I was under the impression that the climb gradient is based on worste case scenerio. How many twin turbo-props or jets cannot maintain the climb gradient with all engines operating?

I was always told that if you accept the departure when you pick up your clearance, then VFR or not, you HAVE to be able to maintain the required climb gradient in the SID if you have an engine out.

Under visual rules, pilots may not concern themselves with climb gradients as long as obstacles can be visually circumnavigated; however, even without the presence of obstacles, the aircraft must still be able to meet or exceed jet aircraft certification climb performance. In other words, a two engine aircraft must be able to meet, with one engine inoperative, a minimum required gross gradient of 2.4% (3 engine aircraft 2.7% and 4 engine 3.0%). We will discuss gross versus net in a bit, but notice that this is the required gradient. Many manufacturers include a Max Weight Climb chart to determine if this most basic criteria can be met. If one is not available, then the aircraft's 2nd segment climb charts must be visited and the pilot must make the appropriate adjustments for gross versus net.

http://cavucompanies.com/CAVU/discuss.htm

The paragraph you quoted refers to CERTIFICATION climb requirements, which have absolutely nothing to do with obstacle clearance requirements. Note that the 2.4% requirement listed is pretty much useless for obstacle clearance in IMC conditions, as obstacles may grow at a 2.5% gradient from the DER without having to publish specific climb requirements for departure.

The quoted reference is simply saying that, unlike light twins that have NO single-engine climb requirement, a 2-engine jet has to be able to make at least a 2.4% gross climb on one engine.

Fly safe!

David

 

[some_dude]

I believe you are correct.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but if you have 3100-3, can't you takeoff with only a 2.4% gradient? I thought the 3.3% (200 ft/nm) was only for departing when it's IFR, but the 460 ft/nm supercedes the 200 ft/nm requirement when the weather is lower than 3100 - 3.