Letterman "Top 10" NWA overflight

[Diesel-9]

So what should the sentence be for landing on a taxiway? At least as much.

 

[Whataburger]

That's because some pilots are God-like,JUST ASK THEM!!....and some pilots are idiots.AND HAVE NO CLUE.

.

Pilots are an interesting bunch aren't they?

 

[100-1/2]

Exactly, how was safety compromised?

What FAR Specifically was violated?

What Company Policy was breached?

So, now every aircraft that goes NORDO is "Careless and Wreckless"?

I don't care if they were doing each other or pantypopping the Senior FA.
If you ALPA nutjobs don't get in there and fight for these guys' reinstatement,
you are effectively deferring any future controversy to the mercy of the most
unchecked and unconstitutional powers of a rogue agency known as the FAA.

"Guilty" until proven "Almost Innocent but still,'Mostly' Guilty".

Disturbing. Very Disturbing.

100-1/2

 

[kmox29]

Exactly, how was safety compromised?

Really?

What FAR Specifically was violated?

91.13

What Company Policy was breached?

I'm not certain, but it appears Delta has a "no laptop" policy in the flight deck.

So, now every aircraft that goes NORDO is "Careless and Wreckless"?

Hardly. But I think this case had more aggrivating factors than simply going NORDO.

I don't care if they were doing each other or pantypopping the Senior FA.
If you ALPA nutjobs don't get in there and fight for these guys' reinstatement,
you are effectively deferring any future controversy to the mercy of the most
unchecked and unconstitutional powers of a rogue agency known as the FAA.

I can tell you dislike the FAA. But what other outcome would you expect? Suspension? Maybe. Unfortunatly for the flight crew, this thing went public in a HUGE way. I think revocation was the only action that was going to be acceptable.

 

[Bringupthebird]

So at what point do you get your license revoked? Being out of radio contact for 20 minutes? 10 minutes? 5 minutes? We are one step away from incarcerating pilots for mistakes like they do in may parts of the world. The difference is, in many of those places due process is still in vogue.

Bring on flight deck video monitoring. The system would come to an immediate and grinding halt if pilots did not have the discretion to use their judgement to keep the operation moving.

 

[kmox29]

So at what point do you get your license revoked? Being out of radio contact for 20 minutes? 10 minutes? 5 minutes?

They didn't have their licenses revoked becuase they were simply NORDO. It that were the case, the FAA would be swamped with emergency revocations.

I'm pretty certain the REASON they were NORDO and the fact that no one monitored the aircraft for a good 1 to 1.5 hours are the reasons for the revocation.

 

[Lear70]

I agree. Being out of radio contact and having that serious of a loss of situational awareness for OVER AN HOUR, resulting in the overflight of their DESTINATION, and then ANOTHER 100+ miles, preparing to scramble fighters in a response to a possible terrorist attack, re-routing dozens of aircraft not knowing what the flight was going to do next, and probably putting them well into their reserve fuel isn't exactly a MINOR infraction. Where's the cut off for when it becomes an unacceptable safety violation? 10 minutes into your reserve fuel? 30? Flame out?

Reckless? Not necessarily, because it wasn't deliberate. Careless? You betcha, and I'll be VERY shocked if they get their jobs back now that the flying public in general is aware of it. Being the first known "Laptop violation" you can bet the FAA will want to set an example hard and fast as well.

Not to mention that if there WAS a policy about laptop usage on the deck and those pilots WILFULLY VIOLATED it while jeopardizing safety at the same time, they will be hard pressed to win in arbitration. To win a termination grievance you have to prove that the company was WRONG in their accusation (i.e. it didn't happen like they accused), or that the policy for which they were fired was non-contractual, or that other crewmembers aren't being held to the same standard, whether it's pilots, flight attendants, mechanics, gate agents, whoever and it's therefore not a terminatable offense unless they terminate EVERYONE who does it.

In this case, it's gonna be a tough one for ALPA to win, or even THEIR OWN attorneys fighting for the licenses... I'm very thankful for the F/A who called up. Another 20 or 30 minutes, depending on their contingency fuel status, and they could have been in real jeopardy. Very not cool.

 

[kmox29]

Lear,

Good post. I would add that it wouldn't be too hard to prove that they were intentionally not monitoring the flight and its progress. I think that's what got them the revocation. The FAA felt that their actions were not unintentional as they willfully violated company policy and knowingly engaged in activity that was not directly related to the flight.

Just my thought.

 

[Lear70]

KMOX, you're right, but on a 3+ hour flight, no one stares at the instruments the entire time, you monitor.

People eat, read, and yes, even getting on your laptop wouldn't be out of the realm of reasonability IF it wasn't BOTH crewmembers and IF you weren't so completely distracted you pretty much STOPPED FLYING THE PLANE COMPLETELY!

If they had been on their laptops but hadn't lost situational control, it's NO different than taking 20 minutes to eat a crew meal or something else non-essential to flight. It's the way they did it, BOTH of them not flying the plane that's going to likely cook their bacon here.

 

[bizicmo]

Normally I don't think the letterman top 10 is funny, but I thought this one was pretty good. I actually laughed at it.