letter from mesa...

[Flyer1015]

What do you want to know about me? Here is a start. I have been at the regional level for 3yrs now, 2 airlines, and have over 3,000/hrs. What do you want to hear about the airlines? My previous post is about mesa, and it is all true. The management stuff I put in there is also true of most regionals and majors. You wanted to know about life as an airline pilot, what I wrote about sums it up. The part I take offense too is that part about working for whatever pay to live your dream. How would you like it if I rolled into your office and told your boss that I would do YOUR job for half of what you got paid? Its not easy to just get out of the industry, as I love to fly. I also have a avit degree, which is about as useless as it comes outside of aviation. This job has the potential to be great again, so, right now if you want that rosy picture painted of life as an airline pilot, you will not get it from me. If you choose not to listen to me, that is your deal, but you asked for advice.

After that, round two of beers is on me as well! Well said!

 

[CopilotDoug]

All I ever see here is a bunch of people whining about getting a job that pays money. Do you pilots think you deserve more and more? Get another job in another industry that pays better then. Go become a stockbroker on wall street and make $100,000 a year and be happy. Go get a degree and get paid more. I am a career person and am thinking about making a transition to do my life long dream- flyin aircraft for whatever it pays. I know I won't make $hit to start and it will take a long time to make any $$. However, it has been a passion even since I got on that first aircraft. I'm still sorting through the best way to do it and at 38, I cannot afford to make the wrong choice. All I see is people complaining about the mesa guys, and the people complaining about instructins, so I don't know which way to turn now. I have a degree in aviation management and have worked in this industry for about 15 years now and thought it was professional until I started reading all of the whiners out here. Come on guys- at least there is some $ to be made. Remember, nothing good is free. Anyone got any good advice- and don't rip on everything, I won't read it!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I know there is good and bad about everything, but when you whine all of the time, you look unprofessional. Sometyimes I think I'm reading posts from a bunch of 18 year olds here.

Hey Pal,

This isn't a "dream", it's a F-ing JOB! GET A CLUE!

 

[Wanna Fly!!]

CopilotDoug- Whatever! Why are you doing it then? Someone hold a gun to your head? A dream can be a f'ing job and you can enjoy it. unfortunately, it appears that your f'ing job is not what you like to do. Since we all have to work to have some things in life, we work. Why not really enjoy what you do? Ever fuel, or throw bags? Try that out and see how bad you've got it. At least you're inside watching people like myself freezing and getting wet all day long.

Bizzum- Thanks. That's what I am looking for here. Some rational explanation. Everything you say makes sense when explained like that. Unfortunately, being in the industry, but not being on the line has it's disadvantages for me. I could talk to all of the Gulfstream pilots I want all day long, but to get into that racket would take about 10 years as the minimums are very high.

Remember gentlemen, nothing good is free and you have to work your butt off harder than the guy next to you if you want to go somwhere. nothing is a given. I see plenty of people driving around in Benzos, and beamers too, but does that mean that they can actaully afford them?
At any rate, I'm thinking that just doing the 172 and instructing thing would be the best at this point as it prooves the love for the job, and it also gets the experience. I understand about the pay, but I face that here each and every day. There are people coming into my department getting 1/2 of my measly salary of a lot less than $100,000 and I've been doing this with a degree for about 12 years. If I had 12 years flying experience, I'd probably be making about the same if not more.

 

[OzBushWhacker]

Yes, top her off pweeze. Mr Shiny Jet Syndrome Ramper Dude!

 

[CopilotDoug]

Why not really enjoy what you do? Ever fuel, or throw bags? Try that out and see how bad you've got it. At least you're inside watching people like myself freezing and getting wet all day long.

The first part of this is laden with naivety. Sounds like you're one of those types looking for their "dream job" where the employer is there for the soul purpose of making your life as close to Nirvana as possible. And yes, I have worked the ramp in the middle of summer and in the dead of winter. I never said I "got it bad" you doosh. I'll save everyone the time and just say: Race to the bottom. You're leading the doosh-pack.

 

[mdanno808]

There are much worse jobs than being an airline pilot at any company, but many of those jobs are not a profession. They do not require the time, money, dedication, training etc. that a pilot must go through. Throwing bags does not require you to spend years of your life, gaining experience and paying dues like being an airline pilot does (at least used to). Rampers and Airline pilots...Apples and bowling balls.

 

[Wanna Fly!!]

Oz and CoDoug-
Ha- shiney jet syndrome remper dude? That's all you got? I got better than that in the Marine Corps you tool! I'm willing to work my up! I never said that I was expecting a jet tomorrow dork. dream job means that I have had a dream to fly, and if I could make money at it I wouldn't mind. You two ******************************s yourselves have such crappy attitudes here- no wonder you complain. Nirvana will not come from any employer, but as I said, liking what you do for a living is a bonus. too bad you guys hate it so much apparently.

 

[Flyer1015]

dream job means that I have had a dream to fly, and if I could make money at it I wouldn't mind.

So you're implying that you'd do it for free, too? :smash:

 

[Wanna Fly!!]

mdanno808-
I can appreciate the having to work your way up and I didn't say that bag tossing was a part of this profession or was equal at all. All I said is that some people have it harder- look out the cockpit. Wow, all of you really make on re-think this.

 

[Wanna Fly!!]

flyer1015- no I never said I would do it for free. There is a cost of living associated, but I will not expedct the 100,000 that all of you do. I have planty of neighbors who in the old days flew and made tons of money. well 9-11 hit and aviation took a proverbail dump. Therefore, you need to get what you can. Got yer eye on a plasma yet?

 

[CopilotDoug]

Oz and CoDoug-
Ha- shiney jet syndrome remper dude? That's all you got? I got better than that in the Marine Corps you tool! I'm willing to work my up! I never said that I was expecting a jet tomorrow dork. dream job means that I have had a dream to fly, and if I could make money at it I wouldn't mind. You two ******************************s yourselves have such crappy attitudes here- no wonder you complain. Nirvana will not come from any employer, but as I said, liking what you do for a living is a bonus. too bad you guys hate it so much apparently.

If the USMC was such a great experience for you, why don't you stick with that, Chief? Obviously they didn't teach you to value your skills. If we could all be so 'lucky' to just enjoy what we're doing...

I think I hear MESA calling you

 

[Wanna Fly!!]

I did my time "Chief" and moved on. Then got a degeree, then moved on. I have probably done more in my life than you and am thinking about making a change once again. Life has a lot to offer and if you save instead of spend, you too may someday be able to do something you've always wanted to. I keep hearing this Mesa thing. you know what's amazing here- we are all passionate about aviation, but it appears that your types don't want anyone creeping onto your turf. I asked for advice here- that's it. I'm sorry you feel the way you do.

 

[ttuite]

Oz and CoDoug-
Ha- shiney jet syndrome remper dude? That's all you got? I got better than

Wanna Fly!! I think that you are on the right track. If you don't expect a high quality of life then you will be easily satisfied and happy at Mesa. I too changed careers and went to Mesa. When I went, the hiring minimums were much higher than they are now and getting the jet was silly to expect. I ended up on the B1900 and within 6 months, was back in ground school for upgrade. Management had sent out letters to anyone with enough hours requesting that they upgrade, as we had a HUGE pilot shortage then. (sound familar?) I met some of the best people in the world at Mesa. When you work at a place like Mesa you tend to have a strong relationship with your fellow workers. I spent 6.5 years there and enjoyed just about every day. I can assure you that there were plenty of days where I was frustrated because I had done a 14 hour duty day, and no pay because of cancellations. When you are mature and see the big picture you tend to let those type of things roll off of your back after a while. I have done my time, aquired my skills and experience and I have had my choice of jobs in the last 6 months. I am in training at MaxJet, an all business class carrier that flies international 121 scheduled and charter. To me this is my dream job. I am by NO MEANS bashing Eagle but if I was there or at Comair would I even be a Captain yet? The point that I am trying to make is that you should pick an airline that provides you with what YOUR life requires. If you have the hours you are in a position to be very picky. There is a HUGE pilot shortage again. With your passion it really won't matter how you are treated. You seem very much like me and I was always able to find the silver lining with Mesa even at their worse. Bottom line is this: If you plan to make the commuters your life then choose wisely. If you plan to move on from the commuters, put up with QOL problems and get in and out as quickly as possible. Try to enjoy the journey as much as possible. I know that I have and if I had to quit flying tomorrow, I have no regrets as to where my career has gone.

 

[CopilotDoug]

I have probably done more in my life than you and am thinking about making a change once again.

Good for you, Friend. You get a Gold Star today.

The point to my babbling: Don't be naive and sell yourself (and your coworkers) down the proverbial drain. One thing that actually shows some intelligence on your behalf is that you want to stick with the 172 instructing rather than run to the likes of the Regionals where they sit and ask you "Why should we hire YOU?" For a hobby, I love flying in a Cessna or a Piper as much as the next guy. When it comes to my job, I won't let that be seen as a weakness by a potential employer. I too, once thought that if you really enjoyed flying, it would negate some of the downsides. It was a reality check for me as I am sure it is for many regional pilots. After two weeks and I came down off cloud nine, I realised that it becomes monotonous and the fklying comprises about 5% of the actual duties involved. I would like to clarify, is that it's not JUST ANOTHER job. Doctor's don't have to go through 6 month PC Checks and physicals - just to touch the iceberg. It is a job though, and you need to take pride in your work and don't under estimate the value of your skills.

 

[mdanno808]

Even those who have to work outside in the cold have someone who would love to be in their shoes. Just because we have a job that is fun doesn't mean we should do it for free, or we should forget what we are worth.

 

[Wanna Fly!!]

ttuite and CopilotDoug-

Thanks again. I am looking for the suggestions because I don't want to make the mistake of shelling out thousands wastefully. I do understand the time and training it takes here- I have best friend who fly comercially and military. They give me their 2 cents, but more advice from those of you who have put up with the likes of Mesa can help out. Mesa only sounded good as I have family there and could make it a little easier vs the commute to the local airport here. However, that still brings up the fact that 50 large is a lot of coin, and I want to invest the best way. If I can make it through the CFI and MEI, I just might have anought hours to make it somewhere. I have a friend who flys for SkyWest and he seems pretty happy there. Any reports on them? I do see the potential for pilots with a shortage, but again I want to amke the right choice for the buck spent.

 

[mdanno808]

Oz and CoDoug-
Ha- shiney jet syndrome remper dude? That's all you got? I got better than

Wanna Fly!! I think that you are on the right track. If you don't expect a high quality of life then you will be easily satisfied and happy at Mesa. I too changed careers and went to Mesa. When I went, the hiring minimums were much higher than they are now and getting the jet was silly to expect. I ended up on the B1900 and within 6 months, was back in ground school for upgrade. Management had sent out letters to anyone with enough hours requesting that they upgrade, as we had a HUGE pilot shortage then. (sound familar?) I met some of the best people in the world at Mesa. When you work at a place like Mesa you tend to have a strong relationship with your fellow workers. I spent 6.5 years there and enjoyed just about every day. I can assure you that there were plenty of days where I was frustrated because I had done a 14 hour duty day, and no pay because of cancellations. When you are mature and see the big picture you tend to let those type of things roll off of your back after a while. I have done my time, aquired my skills and experience and I have had my choice of jobs in the last 6 months. I am in training at MaxJet, an all business class carrier that flies international 121 scheduled and charter. To me this is my dream job. I am by NO MEANS bashing Eagle but if I was there or at Comair would I even be a Captain yet? The point that I am trying to make is that you should pick an airline that provides you with what YOUR life requires. If you have the hours you are in a position to be very picky. There is a HUGE pilot shortage again. With your passion it really won't matter how you are treated. You seem very much like me and I was always able to find the silver lining with Mesa even at their worse. Bottom line is this: If you plan to make the commuters your life then choose wisely. If you plan to move on from the commuters, put up with QOL problems and get in and out as quickly as possible. Try to enjoy the journey as much as possible. I know that I have and if I had to quit flying tomorrow, I have no regrets as to where my career has gone.

Aren't you an A lister? Silver lining huh?

 

[Wanna Fly!!]

mdanno808- I understand this. nobody said you should do it for free at all. I don't want someone up there who doesn't know what it entails. I had an experience as an intern at United when jumping back form IAD. Yes, back before 9-11 we could actually jump. Anyway, got the daylights scared out of myself and the crew while bouncing through a microburst. well, that kid all of 26 and 6 mos in type (737) had it locked up. Did agreat job and I'm here to talk about it. So, I'm not saying you don't deserve pay, but unfortunately, there sre some out there who expect the moon because they are pilots. the money is no longer there and probably won't be anymore since it's cheaper for me to fly to Chicago than it is to drive.

 

[unreal]

Wow, you guys all have really crappy attitudes. Since when did industry professionals start badmouthing people who aren't even yet in the industry? Flying does become a job after a while, but let people figure that out on their own.

Throwing flaming insults at people who haven't even started flight training is just pathetic. :smash:

 

[BoilerUP]

There aren't many professionals here...

 

[CopilotDoug]

There aren't many professionals here...

Please enlighten us with your definition of professionalism.

 

[G2T]

Please enlighten us with your definition of professionalism.

I think this board has a large part in professionalism. Most people on here are probably very safe, competent, cordial, and professional aviators in the airport. This is a way to blow off all the frustrations from the daily grind. The wife doesn't wanna hear you complain about union problems, the kids don't want to hear about them, and the girlfriend already knows because she's been working with you the last 3 days. People come on here and argue instead of throwing fists at each other in the airport, That's professionalism. If you come on here looking for an opinion, you're going to get it. It may not be the one you're looking for, but there are no shortage of opinions. Ending irrelevant rant now.

 

[CopilotDoug]

Good Post

I think this board has a large part in professionalism. Most people on here are probably very safe, competent, cordial, and professional aviators in the airport. This is a way to blow off all the frustrations from the daily grind. The wife doesn't wanna hear you complain about union problems, the kids don't want to hear about them, and the girlfriend already knows because she's been working with you the last 3 days. People come on here and argue instead of throwing fists at each other in the airport, That's professionalism. If you come on here looking for an opinion, you're going to get it. It may not be the one you're looking for, but there are no shortage of opinions. Ending irrelevant rant now.

I'll second that!

 

[doh]

Wanna Fly!!, no offence, but you really need an education. If you go to Mesa, you will get one! We all want to fly, but we also want to stay married, see the kids, and pursue our other outside interests. You have to have a certain amount of work/life balance for that to happen. Mesa does not have that balance in any way, shape, or form. What you call whining is real concern on the part of these guys about what is happening to their lives because of inept management. Please go to Mesa. After your divorce, when you are totally exhausted, with no social life because all you do is stay on the road, we will talk again. Why do you think the regionals can't fill their classes? You really need to put a lid on it until you have a couple of years in the seat. I don't mean to bash you, but you have no idea.

G2T, you are spot on in your assessment!:beer:

 

[samballs]

So, your buddy turned down the offer by an airline, huh.

Of course no offer could be made until he applied, interviewed, and passed the interview process successfully, right. So, if he had so much common sense not to fly for a regional airline at low hours, why did he apply?

Sounds like both of you got turned down by Mesa.

By the way, I don't fly for Mesa. Mesa is a regional airline with challenges like any other regional airline. While you're on your 'high horse', look up a thread where Mesaba pilots are also being bashed. It will help you lighten up your load.

Hope this helps.

Hello D!psh!t, let me fix the phrasing for you. first They sent him 4 letters trying to interview him, second he never applied to the hole, he applied to comair on APPS and just taking a guess but would go as far as to say the site shares your address, third comair offered him a job which he turned down the comapny he works for offered him a position making more than any capt at these great regionals. finally what the F&ck do I care about Mesaba fo never worked their and never will.

 

[rickair7777]

If the mesa pilots get a better contract, any loss of codeshare or lack of growth will be blamed on the pilots...

Since you will be a member of the pilot group, slow upgrades will then be "Your Fault"

If you think I'm kidding, you don't know JO very well...

 

[Bringupthebird]

Wanna Fly-
If you were passionate about becoming a doctor, would your first choice be some grass hut med school in Belize or Johns Hopkins?

The profession will mean more to you if you can look back on what you did to get to where you are and do so with pride. An easy way into to a profession undermines the value of the profession and when you realize you were a willing accomplice in it all, you in turn will become as bitter and disallusioned as the guys who are chewing your head off here.

When you have chosen a route that is the best (even though it's not the most direct or easiest) to reach your professional goals, your resume will clearly reflect it. Folks who hire for the "dream jobs" are perceptive to the true professional and can easily discern them from the "buy some experience" types, and reward them for their devotion to their profession.

 

[CFI2766]

wannafly,

I know where you are coming from, I actually was looking into mesa pretty indepth before I got a job, I was a CFI for a while first and i thought a fast upgrade at mesa would be worth it. Luckily i researched them alot like you are doing now- and found that mesa should ONLY be a very last resort. Just think about having only 6 or 7 days off in a whole month VS 16-17. Remember the other days you will be away from home. Thats one of the differences between mesa and somewhere quality like skywest. And good for you places like skywest aren't as hard to get hired like they used to be. Everyone is hurting for pilots and will be hiring like mad over the next year. So get you hours, instruct or whatever you have to do, and apply to quality jobs like : Skywest, ExpressJet, America Eagle first, then if you really have to and if u still want to, throw a resume to mesa..
Good luck, and if u are really passionate about flying for a career, a bunch of negative opinions on here should not matter to ya Go for it.

 

[lionflyer]

Any of you remember that USA Today article on MESA some years back when the UAL BS was going on. It was the cover story in the Money section with a picture of JO on it. What did he say in that article? Oh yeah..."I have no problem filling newhire classes." Tables are turning!

 

[labbats]

I have yet to see anyone have the "I'll do whatever it takes" attitude after a year at a regional.

From the outside looking in, this is a dream job. The view changes drastically from the inside on reserve or commuting home on one of your 8 days off a month.