letter from mesa...

[Wanna Fly!!]

All I ever see here is a bunch of people whining about getting a job that pays money. Do you pilots think you deserve more and more? Get another job in another industry that pays better then. Go become a stockbroker on wall street and make $100,000 a year and be happy. Go get a degree and get paid more. I am a career person and am thinking about making a transition to do my life long dream- flyin aircraft for whatever it pays. I know I won't make $hit to start and it will take a long time to make any $$. However, it has been a passion even since I got on that first aircraft. I'm still sorting through the best way to do it and at 38, I cannot afford to make the wrong choice. All I see is people complaining about the mesa guys, and the people complaining about instructins, so I don't know which way to turn now. I have a degree in aviation management and have worked in this industry for about 15 years now and thought it was professional until I started reading all of the whiners out here. Come on guys- at least there is some $ to be made. Remember, nothing good is free. Anyone got any good advice- and don't rip on everything, I won't read it!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I know there is good and bad about everything, but when you whine all of the time, you look unprofessional. Sometyimes I think I'm reading posts from a bunch of 18 year olds here.

 

[DashCojones]

All I ever see here is a bunch of people whining about getting a job that pays money. Do you pilots think you deserve more and more? Get another job in another industry that pays better then. Go become a stockbroker on wall street and make $100,000 a year and be happy. Go get a degree and get paid more. I am a career person and am thinking about making a transition to do my life long dream- flyin aircraft for whatever it pays. I know I won't make $hit to start and it will take a long time to make any $$. However, it has been a passion even since I got on that first aircraft. I'm still sorting through the best way to do it and at 38, I cannot afford to make the wrong choice. All I see is people complaining about the mesa guys, and the people complaining about instructins, so I don't know which way to turn now. I have a degree in aviation management and have worked in this industry for about 15 years now and thought it was professional until I started reading all of the whiners out here. Come on guys- at least there is some $ to be made. Remember, nothing good is free. Anyone got any good advice- and don't rip on everything, I won't read it!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I know there is good and bad about everything, but when you whine all of the time, you look unprofessional. Sometyimes I think I'm reading posts from a bunch of 18 year olds here.

...You'll fit right in at Mesa's PACE program.

 

[bizzum]

All I ever see here is a bunch of people whining about getting a job that pays money. Do you pilots think you deserve more and more? Get another job in another industry that pays better then. Go become a stockbroker on wall street and make $100,000 a year and be happy. Go get a degree and get paid more. I am a career person and am thinking about making a transition to do my life long dream- flyin aircraft for whatever it pays. I know I won't make $hit to start and it will take a long time to make any $$. However, it has been a passion even since I got on that first aircraft. I'm still sorting through the best way to do it and at 38, I cannot afford to make the wrong choice. All I see is people complaining about the mesa guys, and the people complaining about instructins, so I don't know which way to turn now. I have a degree in aviation management and have worked in this industry for about 15 years now and thought it was professional until I started reading all of the whiners out here. Come on guys- at least there is some $ to be made. Remember, nothing good is free. Anyone got any good advice- and don't rip on everything, I won't read it!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I know there is good and bad about everything, but when you whine all of the time, you look unprofessional. Sometyimes I think I'm reading posts from a bunch of 18 year olds here.

Its not whining, it's called being treated as a professional. 8 days of a month, not getting paid for canceled flights that is out of your control, not getting paid what you actually fly, only scheduled block, and for what you get paid for, you get low pay. Oh and you will be commuting because after you moved into base, it closed and now you are away from home for 6+ days at a time. It is frustrating, especially when the companies tell you constantly how "much" you cost and you need to be "competitive," as the management teams speed away in their new BMW's and brag how they have "500 million extra cash to spend" Is that fair? NO! Finally the industry seems to be turning around, with the bottom feeder regionals not being able to fill classes. The "dream" of being an airline pilot takes about 3 months to wear off, so your comment about "not caring what I fly or for what pay" will change fast. It's that attitude that has caused this abuse of people now, because people were willing to work for what ever pay and work rules so they could fly that "shiny RJ." Good luck with your career, just don't forget that there are others that are not on their second career, and want things to change.

 

[Flyer1015]

bizzum, very well said! If we ever meet, first round is on me!

 

[Wanna Fly!!]

Bizzum,
all I am asking for is that I get the truth here and not with a bunch of bad language, that's all. I've been in the Military- you want to talk about low pay, vacations, being away from the family? I also made it throught 4 years of college- no pay, no vacation, people treat you like garbage all day long. So, once again- this is about a dream, not a shiny damn jet! I coul care less if I "flew rubber dog$hit out of Hong Kong", or whatever. I would like to simply make a career out of it. I've been in this industry for long enough (Gulfstream Aircraft) and know the industry and it's problems. But when I get on a post like this and simply ask for advice I get this "...You'll fit right in at Mesa's PACE program" from someone, agaibn I wonder of the quality of people here. I am a skeptic of the Mesa program, thus the questions. But, if I cannot get an intelligent answer from anyone here without the politics involved, then I'll keep researching. If I ever talk to Mesa, then I'll put these questions to them and see. I'm not an id 10 T and can usually sniff out the crap.
So, again I ask- what would some of you recommend to get the dream of flying whatever for whomever!
It appears that nobody would do this job as all I see is complaining here. Can anyone provide any good words, or are all of you so unhappy in this career that you would t=rather do something else? If so, what and whay are you not pursuing it? If I'm 38 and looking at doing something for the love of it, then why don't the unhappy ones here do it? Believe me, BMW's and the other "Stuff" does not make life as money is not the answer to your unhappiness. I've been in aviation for a while with a degree and I'm not making the $100,000 that some of you think you deserve for flying. The industry is not what it used to be because of 9/11, but it's getting better, very slowly, but it is.

 

[rtmcfi]

Wanna Fly-
Perhaps not everyone on here is a incurable whiner. Perhaps you are doing the correct thing by checking out this site to see what people who actually live this lifestyle think. The next step for you is to pay attention to what these folks are saying. You are not the only career changer. You are not the only one with a dream. The people posting here are not all that different from you. Take their advice. Learn from their mistakes. Don't discard there posts as mere whining. If you love flying, get your ratings and fly a Cessna. The quickest cure for that love is a job at a regional. Above all, if you foolishly fail to consider all that you have read, don't say you were not warned.

 

[Wanna Fly!!]

rtmcfi-
Now that's what I am looking for here. Again, at 38 With a dream may be stupid, but I've been rich and poor and am looking to see if this dream is even worth it. But when Bizzum puts up this as experience-
A/C Flown: DHC-8 CL-65 Barbie Jet
Ratings: The usual
Curr Position: F/O
Total Time: alot
Posts: 121
Should I take him seriously? Why wouldn't you put your credentials up here? I also see alot of 1/2 naked women (not that I don't like them), but the maturity factor plays in here. So aI wonder what to believe. If I hear that the best way to go is 172 land first, then CFI for the next couple of years, so be it. Just like all of you, looking for the best way and gaining valuable information from those here working hard to make a living is invaluable to me!! I remember way back in the day at Metro State and Alpha Eta Rho how we were supposed to be professionals. All I see here is the opposite and think that some pilots here are like the rest of this country wanting a plasma on the wall and a beamer in the 3 car with 10,000 sq ft just like Paris Hilton. So I don't know, but thatnks for the informationa ll of you.

 

[bizzum]

rtmcfi-
Now that's what I am looking for here. Again, at 38 With a dream may be stupid, but I've been rich and poor and am looking to see if this dream is even worth it. But when Bizzum puts up this as experience-
A/C Flown: DHC-8 CL-65 Barbie Jet
Ratings: The usual
Curr Position: F/O
Total Time: alot
Posts: 121
Should I take him seriously? Why wouldn't you put your credentials up here? I also see alot of 1/2 naked women (not that I don't like them), but the maturity factor plays in here. So aI wonder what to believe. If I hear that the best way to go is 172 land first, then CFI for the next couple of years, so be it. Just like all of you, looking for the best way and gaining valuable information from those here working hard to make a living is invaluable to me!! I remember way back in the day at Metro State and Alpha Eta Rho how we were supposed to be professionals. All I see here is the opposite and think that some pilots here are like the rest of this country wanting a plasma on the wall and a beamer in the 3 car with 10,000 sq ft just like Paris Hilton. So I don't know, but thatnks for the informationa ll of you.

What do you want to know about me? Here is a start. I have been at the regional level for 3yrs now, 2 airlines, and have over 3,000/hrs. What do you want to hear about the airlines? My previous post is about mesa, and it is all true. The management stuff I put in there is also true of most regionals and majors. You wanted to know about life as an airline pilot, what I wrote about sums it up. The part I take offense too is that part about working for whatever pay to live your dream. How would you like it if I rolled into your office and told your boss that I would do YOUR job for half of what you got paid? Its not easy to just get out of the industry, as I love to fly. I also have a avit degree, which is about as useless as it comes outside of aviation. This job has the potential to be great again, so, right now if you want that rosy picture painted of life as an airline pilot, you will not get it from me. If you choose not to listen to me, that is your deal, but you asked for advice.

 

[OzBushWhacker]

Believe it or not flying rubber doggie do out of hong kong pays a fair amount of cash! Even more if the tail is brown..

You career change guys have been the bane of flying for a living for years.

 

[Flyer1015]

rtmcfi-
Now that's what I am looking for here. Again, at 38 With a dream may be stupid, but I've been rich and poor and am looking to see if this dream is even worth it. But when Bizzum puts up this as experience-
A/C Flown: DHC-8 CL-65 Barbie Jet
Ratings: The usual
Curr Position: F/O
Total Time: alot
Posts: 121
Should I take him seriously? Why wouldn't you put your credentials up here? I also see alot of 1/2 naked women (not that I don't like them), but the maturity factor plays in here. So aI wonder what to believe. If I hear that the best way to go is 172 land first, then CFI for the next couple of years, so be it. Just like all of you, looking for the best way and gaining valuable information from those here working hard to make a living is invaluable to me!! I remember way back in the day at Metro State and Alpha Eta Rho how we were supposed to be professionals. All I see here is the opposite and think that some pilots here are like the rest of this country wanting a plasma on the wall and a beamer in the 3 car with 10,000 sq ft just like Paris Hilton. So I don't know, but thatnks for the informationa ll of you.

You had asked about Mesa and their PACE program, and people gave you their opinion about Mesa.

Listen to what others said about the QOL at Mesa.

Imagine you've got an IAD-LGA leg, scheduled for 1 hr 15 minutes block. At IAD, you are in a ground delay for 1 hour. Then you finally takeoff, due to congestion, you hold in the air for 30 minutes (on top of the flight time it takes to get from IAD-LGA). You land at LGA, and have to wait another 45 mints before you finally make it into a gate.

Total time spent in the CRJ: 1+1.25+.5+.75 = 3.5 hours

Total time you get paid for that flight: 1.25 hours (your scheduled block).

Mesa doesn't do block or better in that regards. That's just one example of their bad QOL.

Almost every other regional does block or better... Eagle, XJT, Skywest, etc.

So why don't you just go there? You'll be happier at the end of the day.

 

[Flyer1015]

What do you want to know about me? Here is a start. I have been at the regional level for 3yrs now, 2 airlines, and have over 3,000/hrs. What do you want to hear about the airlines? My previous post is about mesa, and it is all true. The management stuff I put in there is also true of most regionals and majors. You wanted to know about life as an airline pilot, what I wrote about sums it up. The part I take offense too is that part about working for whatever pay to live your dream. How would you like it if I rolled into your office and told your boss that I would do YOUR job for half of what you got paid? Its not easy to just get out of the industry, as I love to fly. I also have a avit degree, which is about as useless as it comes outside of aviation. This job has the potential to be great again, so, right now if you want that rosy picture painted of life as an airline pilot, you will not get it from me. If you choose not to listen to me, that is your deal, but you asked for advice.

After that, round two of beers is on me as well! Well said!

 

[CopilotDoug]

All I ever see here is a bunch of people whining about getting a job that pays money. Do you pilots think you deserve more and more? Get another job in another industry that pays better then. Go become a stockbroker on wall street and make $100,000 a year and be happy. Go get a degree and get paid more. I am a career person and am thinking about making a transition to do my life long dream- flyin aircraft for whatever it pays. I know I won't make $hit to start and it will take a long time to make any $$. However, it has been a passion even since I got on that first aircraft. I'm still sorting through the best way to do it and at 38, I cannot afford to make the wrong choice. All I see is people complaining about the mesa guys, and the people complaining about instructins, so I don't know which way to turn now. I have a degree in aviation management and have worked in this industry for about 15 years now and thought it was professional until I started reading all of the whiners out here. Come on guys- at least there is some $ to be made. Remember, nothing good is free. Anyone got any good advice- and don't rip on everything, I won't read it!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I know there is good and bad about everything, but when you whine all of the time, you look unprofessional. Sometyimes I think I'm reading posts from a bunch of 18 year olds here.

Hey Pal,

This isn't a "dream", it's a F-ing JOB! GET A CLUE!

 

[Wanna Fly!!]

CopilotDoug- Whatever! Why are you doing it then? Someone hold a gun to your head? A dream can be a f'ing job and you can enjoy it. unfortunately, it appears that your f'ing job is not what you like to do. Since we all have to work to have some things in life, we work. Why not really enjoy what you do? Ever fuel, or throw bags? Try that out and see how bad you've got it. At least you're inside watching people like myself freezing and getting wet all day long.

Bizzum- Thanks. That's what I am looking for here. Some rational explanation. Everything you say makes sense when explained like that. Unfortunately, being in the industry, but not being on the line has it's disadvantages for me. I could talk to all of the Gulfstream pilots I want all day long, but to get into that racket would take about 10 years as the minimums are very high.

Remember gentlemen, nothing good is free and you have to work your butt off harder than the guy next to you if you want to go somwhere. nothing is a given. I see plenty of people driving around in Benzos, and beamers too, but does that mean that they can actaully afford them?
At any rate, I'm thinking that just doing the 172 and instructing thing would be the best at this point as it prooves the love for the job, and it also gets the experience. I understand about the pay, but I face that here each and every day. There are people coming into my department getting 1/2 of my measly salary of a lot less than $100,000 and I've been doing this with a degree for about 12 years. If I had 12 years flying experience, I'd probably be making about the same if not more.

 

[OzBushWhacker]

Yes, top her off pweeze. Mr Shiny Jet Syndrome Ramper Dude!

 

[CopilotDoug]

Why not really enjoy what you do? Ever fuel, or throw bags? Try that out and see how bad you've got it. At least you're inside watching people like myself freezing and getting wet all day long.

The first part of this is laden with naivety. Sounds like you're one of those types looking for their "dream job" where the employer is there for the soul purpose of making your life as close to Nirvana as possible. And yes, I have worked the ramp in the middle of summer and in the dead of winter. I never said I "got it bad" you doosh. I'll save everyone the time and just say: Race to the bottom. You're leading the doosh-pack.

 

[mdanno808]

There are much worse jobs than being an airline pilot at any company, but many of those jobs are not a profession. They do not require the time, money, dedication, training etc. that a pilot must go through. Throwing bags does not require you to spend years of your life, gaining experience and paying dues like being an airline pilot does (at least used to). Rampers and Airline pilots...Apples and bowling balls.

 

[Wanna Fly!!]

Oz and CoDoug-
Ha- shiney jet syndrome remper dude? That's all you got? I got better than that in the Marine Corps you tool! I'm willing to work my up! I never said that I was expecting a jet tomorrow dork. dream job means that I have had a dream to fly, and if I could make money at it I wouldn't mind. You two ******************************s yourselves have such crappy attitudes here- no wonder you complain. Nirvana will not come from any employer, but as I said, liking what you do for a living is a bonus. too bad you guys hate it so much apparently.

 

[Flyer1015]

dream job means that I have had a dream to fly, and if I could make money at it I wouldn't mind.

So you're implying that you'd do it for free, too? :smash:

 

[Wanna Fly!!]

mdanno808-
I can appreciate the having to work your way up and I didn't say that bag tossing was a part of this profession or was equal at all. All I said is that some people have it harder- look out the cockpit. Wow, all of you really make on re-think this.

 

[Wanna Fly!!]

flyer1015- no I never said I would do it for free. There is a cost of living associated, but I will not expedct the 100,000 that all of you do. I have planty of neighbors who in the old days flew and made tons of money. well 9-11 hit and aviation took a proverbail dump. Therefore, you need to get what you can. Got yer eye on a plasma yet?