Let's Start an Airline-Hypothetically

[Publishers]

Enigma

Enigma, I do not begrudge you the fact that you want to get your time in during the shortest period.

My point, if I have one, is that as a manager, youare constantly managing a wide breath of issues, critical decisions that need to be made, information gathered.

If you read the thread on A wish for Leadership, you will get a better feel on how I think about management without me having to copy it all.

All that said, the pilot corp are necessary to performance but far from the aspect that will keep the company going. In the end, the fact that is how most managers think and is also why pilots get upset with their managment. They feel they are the chief cog in the wheel.

 

[enigma]

Re: Enigma

Enigma, I do not begrudge you the fact that you want to get your time in during the shortest period.

Thank you, BTW, that desire is an ideal. I am aware that schedules can't always be written to allow me to fly exactly 8 hours in day.

All that said, the pilot corp are necessary to performance but far from the aspect that will keep the company going. In the end, the fact that is how most managers think and is also why pilots get upset with their managment. They feel they are the chief cog in the wheel.

I know very few pilots who believe that they are the chief cog in the wheel. Some do, but not the majority.

Pilots get upset with management for stuff like: forcing you to train on your off days, having crew schedulers interrupt your rest and then justify it by saying that the pilot was not required to answer the phone, forcing a pilot to ride the jumpseat to get from base to training, Junior assigning pilots in the jetway, waiting to notify you that your number came up for a randon drug screen until the last landing of a five day trip, changing your reserve period after the fact, refusing to release reserve pilots until their reserve period is completely over even though the reserve was on his sixth day and could not possibly be used, allowing stations to place delay responsibility on the crew without the crews knowledge, payroll discrepancies that always favor the company, and much much more. The worst one is the manager who says, "I don't care what your contract says, fly it now, grieve it later; I really don't care if it's not proper".

There really is more to this than pilots being primadonnas.

regards,
enigma

 

[Astra Guy]

I think Bobbysamd hit the nail on the head. Pay your people well and treat them fairly. The formula works in almost any line of work. Some jobs don't necessarily pay well but if when it is all said and done the associates are all treated fairly then you have a much better chance at success. Associates may leave due to the lower than standard pay but they will not have a bridge to burn over their treatment.

What, in my mind, makes this developing model unique is that the people management is done by other "working associates." It is not being done by the guys in the Ivory tower. Much better to be evaluated by folks that know what you are going through day by day. Each can empathize and evaluate on aspects that really matter.

Thanks for all of the input so far.

 

[Astra Guy]

Shadow,

Thanks for doing some leg work. Once we have some numbers maybe a 757 type might chime in to give us the real world numbers, as well.

I know there are lurkers in the shadows that have peeked at our thread but don't want to get involved since our developing model is kind of "out there" to them. For those I would say that this is not about pilot/management/union bashing. It is just another method to arrive at the same goal for everyone, fairly. It is doable, IMHO.

 

[bobbysamd]

H.R.

I still haven't read the entire discussion word for word, so, I apologize if the following point has been hit already.

The airline will need a competent H.R. function. The individuals who comprise the department should have a good measure of common sense and life experience to go along with their ability to read resumes and applications and evaluate them against our airline's model of the ideal applicant. They should possess the ability to see where a not-completely-round peg would be a grateful, dedicated and loyal employee.

A major fault of aviation hiring is its inability to see the person behind the resume. Aviation hiring tends to take the path of least resistance by bringing in saints ahead of others because the saints are available. (I know Hugh Jorgan will argue with me strenously about this point.) This would go a long way toward having a diverse culture in the company. And, it very well may avert exposure to EEOC, ADA and ADEA actions.

Once more, excellent discussion.

 

[Astra Guy]

With some behind the scenes negotiations I am pleased to announce that Bobbysamd will be joining the board. His primary role will be to develop our training program, evaluate and select our Check Airmen and other instructors.

Bobbysamd has been a major contributor to this message board and he brings with him the attitude, background and expertise to be a real contributor. We will all be much better off with his contributions in the coming days.

And besides all of this I have yet to read anything he has posted that was the least bit belittling to anyone. He works from "the high ground" and that is exactly where we want to be.

Thanks in advance, Bobby.

 

[bobbysamd]

It'll be great . . . .

With some behind the scenes negotiations I am pleased to announce that Bobbysamd will be joining the board. His primary role will be to develop our training program, evaluate and select our Check Airmen and other instructors.

Bobbysamd has been a major contributor to this message board and he brings with him the attitude, background and expertise to be a real contributor. We will all be much better off with his contributions in the coming days.

And besides all of this I have yet to read anything he has posted that was the least bit belittling to anyone. He works from "the high ground" and that is exactly where we want to be.

Maybe I can still achieve aviation success and fulfillment of my goals, in a virtual sense!

I'm still available to Legal and Media Relations. To that end, I have a hiring recommendation (consider this an LOR). Our long-time member, Timebuilder, has excellent media experience in major-market radio, and has done talent work. Of course, he's a pilot and flight instructor. Maybe he'd entertain an offer.

 

[Astra Guy]

Bobby,

I think the Legal and Media Relations background would help us immensely, as well. It is great for folks who have several talents to volunteer their other talents.

Time,

If you are reading this do you have any interest? You come well reccomended.

 

[Publishers]

Enigma

I have reviewed your points and they are well taken.

From my perspective, the people responsible for most of the items you mentioned would fall more under the supervisory manager than excutive management.

What then is the difference. The difference is one of policy and course, versus actually steering the wheel.

The points that I have been trying to make from a pure managment perspective is that if I make a poor choice on the route structure and frequencies, how my pilots are will not save the company.

If I make a poor equipment choice for the routes and passenger loads, it will not save the company.

If I hedge the fuel wrong or set up bad maintenance contracts or facilities, it will not save the company.

In short, there are a large number of decisions and critical moves that need to work out right or the pilot and flight crews will not matter.

You have people in your hypothetical airline making equipment choices, seating choices, pilot contract issues, etc., when your board is not even set. Wrong set of priorities.

You set the board first and their job is to study the possible routes and potential profits based on equipment and frequncies that you serve it with, competitive factors, available resources and financing, insurance costs, cost to certificate. avialable gates, maintenance issues, cost and availability of a reservations system, code shares, etc, etc, etc, .

Then, after that is done, you put in place HR and the policies and guidelines for recruiting people that fit what you are doing.

To give you an example, Bobby is off on the hiring issue because it has been his gig on this board all along. He did not get hired when he thought he should. It is an important issue to him. Great but does not qualifiy him to be on the board of anything.

You need to concentrate on getting a board together that has demonstrated their ability to make money, to deal with the tough decisions, who have vision of a route structure, who understand contribution margins and revenue yields.

Yes you wnat to treat employees fair, yes you want to pay reasonable wages for the return, yes all the issues you bring up need addressed. Just much later.

 

[Astra Guy]

Publishers,

No doubt we are putting the cart before the horse. You bring up some very valid points. There is no doubt that much of the business end of things would have been determined before we decide to launch an endeavor. My intention here is to go from the known to the unknown. We build a people management basis which we have some background in and then start dealing with the really tough part....route structure, competition, fees associated with starting things up...all factors which many here do not have a positive grounding in. These factors, or as many as our knowledge base has, will be put into the final equation.

Since we started in this vain then we should lay the groundwork for the people side and then start digging into the details, one by one.

What you say is very true and we are starting in a non real world way. However, as we go along and more ideas come to us then we will have gained more knowledge than before. It can be an undaunting task but may, in the end, result in increasing everyone's knowledge. Some views will change when they see the big picture. That is what this is about.

There is no doubt that the market is saturated in some areas. Makes it tough to jump into the fray. I think we can do some research on what areas are underserved or not completely overserved. Once we have that info then we can proceed down the road making and probably changing decisions before the launch date.

I, for one, appreciate your input.