Let's pressure ALPA to NOT sign MESA TA

[dickie q]

You guys crack me up, do ya'll stand around saluting yourselves or what.
I can't understand how anyone can argue for or against our TA when you haven't read it in it's entirety. Your arguments are based on rumor and speculation.......pathetic.

 

[dickie q]

Hasn't Freedom Airlines illustrated the importance of scope to you RJ Defense Coalition idiots yet?

BTW, if CMR had our TA's scope, they would be merged with Delta

 

[surplus1]

Hasn't Freedom Airlines illustrated the importance of scope to you RJ Defense Coalition idiots yet?

Nope. What it has confirmed is what we've always know, ALPA made it happen because of bad Scope. Now ALPA will make you pay the price and give half your jobs to mainline at the same time. The real probem is that you don't seem to get it.

BTW, if CMR had our TA's scope, they would be merged with Delta

Does that somehow translate to "a good thing" in your mind?

 

[dickie q]

So, having two seperate employee groups IS good in your mind??

And please don't comment about Jets-For-Jobs if you are unfamiliar with it.

 

[big dog1]

This may be of the piont , but the union and DW are a joke!!! they told the San Juaner's (MAPD) to stand strong and not to go to Freedum But under the new TA all the scum bags that went with 300 hours screwed everyone that listen DW. Its all a big joke nothing will happen to any of the Freedum scum they will get to stay on the 700's will other people on the 1900's will stuck untill they can hold jet capt

 

[Uncle Don]

VOTE NO for the sake of the industry!!!

Let me tell you MESA pilots a story...

Once upon a time, (1997) there were several airlines their names were Simmons, Flagship, Executive, and Wings West, none of which had jets. Four seperate companies that wanted job stability and security, and wanted to fly new planes.

But, there was a big bad witch that lived in East Texas....her name was AMR. AMR wanted to make lots of money, but she needed the help of the pilots at these airlines. So the witch said, "I will make you a one list airline, and make you guys the only feed to my empire, all you need to do is sign this 'great' new contract and you can have ONE AIRLINE, fly NEW SHINEY JETS and even a FLOWTHROUGH. The airlines that sign this contract will grow and get new jets the ones that don't will never grow and fade away."

Now, all the greedy pilots decided that "THEIR FUTURE DEPENDS ON SIGNING THIS CONTRACT." So, after some debate they knew that signing this contract would be for the "better". After all, the FOUR airlines would have:

1)ONE LIST 2)ONE FEED 3)New jets and 4)a FLOWTHROUGH

Well to make a very long story short.... The witch stabed the pilots in their back 2 years after signing the contract and even with SCOPE, started to outsource their work and tear the airline apart.

Now, as of today there are:

1)4 lists 2) 5 feeds 3)Jets being transfered to other airlines and 4) maybe 150 guys tops that flowed through.

No one lived happy everafter, except for the witch, because she now has the abitily AGAIN to outsource cheap labor.

MESA PILOTS..........PLEASE VOTE DOWN YOUR TA........DON"T SELL OUT!!!

>>>MORE IMPORTANTLY DON'T SELL YOURSELVES SHORT<<<<

YOU CAN DO BETTER....SCOPE IS NEVER WATER TIGHT OR MANAGMENT WOULD NOT HAVE AGREED TO IT ASK aal, ual, dal, or egl!!!

AAL had the MOST RESTRICTIVE SCOPE in the industy, but keep in mind that reverse code sharing can elimate SCOPE. AMERICAN AIRLINE's now feeds TSA and CHQ in STL. Amazing, a 757 feeding a J41.... go firgure?? Also now there are 2 Eagles and 3 alter-Eagles???

Everyone else, you can help stop this RACE FOR THE BOTTOM...
E-Mail Dwayne Worth [email protected] and tell him what you think. We must stop this now, ALPA did not help Eagle because they were regional and not important, and look what is happening now.

Here is a form letter someone wrote and gave everyone permission to use:

Dear Capt. Woerth,

I am a pilot for xyz airlines and have concerns over the Mesa Airlines tentative agreement. This TA will give management at my airline fuel to ask for wages and work rules similar to what they have proposed. We cannot allow any airline management to lower the bar in our section of the industry where pay and work rules, in many cases, are already substandard. I urge you to strongly oppose this TA.

Fraternally,

Joe Pilot
XYZ Airlines
ALPA # 123456

P.S. ALPA ...WHO CARES ABOUT GUNS IN THE COCKPIT, MAKE THE DOOR SO THEY CANNOT GET IN AND SPEND SOMETIME STOPING THIS RACE...NO MARATHON FOR THE BOTTOM OF THE INDUSTRY!

 

[dickie q]

Re: VOTE NO for the sake of the industry!!!

I don't know how the langaue is written,

Well, if you don't know, then how can you argue for or against?



The bottom line is that Mesa too has merged lists also. Remember Florida Gulf, Crown, Liberty, Air Midwest and Mountain West? We have learned our lesson. We are EXPERTS in regards to whipsaw tactics. Please don't judge what you know nothing about.

Again, if Eagle had the same scope clause as is in our TA, there would be only one list for ALL of AMR

 

[jetflyer]

VOTE NO!!!

 

[surplus1]

So, having two seperate employee groups IS good in your mind??

In the context that you used it, the answer is YES.

And please don't comment about Jets-For-Jobs if you are unfamiliar with it.

I'm not "unfamiliar" with that at all. I wouldn't call it jets for jobs. I would call it Grand Theft Seniority, or Grand Theft Contract, or Grand Theft Jobs.

PS. I don't drink Kool Aid. The ALPA wolf in sheep's clothing is still a wolf.

"If you make yourselves sheep, the wolves will eat you."
- Benjamin Franklin-

 

[dickie q]

Please explain, in your mind, how it is that having two or more pilot groups doing flying for "Delta", is good. I am anxious to be "educated".

And judging by your response to the "Jets-For-Jobs" senario, you are completely unfamiliar with it's implementation. Unless of course you think that Mesa is somehow "entitled" to jet flying for AAA.

 

[surplus1]

Please explain, in your mind, how it is that having two or more pilot groups doing flying for "Delta", is good. I am anxious to be "educated".

Sorry, but I'm not capable of "educating" you or anyone else. Not smart enough. Let's just say that I am not eager to have my pilots on the street, so that our airplanes can be flown by Delta pilots. If we were merged, that is exactly what would happen. They would be employed and I would be unemployed. I'm sorry, but that prospect doesn't thrill me at all.

I do have a question though. Which one of the carriers that MESA flys for do you think you should be "one" with? Is it AAA, AWA or UAL? Since it is not "good" for you to be separate, maybe you would like to give those guys the job that you have? At least two of them could use that job?

I really don't want to argue about this. You are entitled to your opinions and I am entitled to mine. Obviously, they are not the same.

And judging by your response to the "Jets-For-Jobs" senario, you are completely unfamiliar with it's implementation. Unless of course you think that Mesa is somehow "entitled" to jet flying for AAA.

Again, I am not an expert and do not pretend to be. I have read the agreement between ALPA and USAirways that is known as the "jets for jobs protocol." I may not know what it "means", but I certainly know what is says. My opinions are based on the text of that agreement. Perhaps you have a different view of what it means. That's OK with me. I'm not trying to convince you of anything or to "sell" you anything. Apparently ALPA has already sold you a pig in a poke. Go ahead and believe whatever you choose.

I do not think that MESA is entitled to anything. I also do not think that U pilots are "entitled" to 50% of the jobs at any other airline, whether or not that airline has a contract with USAirways and whether or not they are furloughed. Maybe you think they are. That's OK with me too, as long as nobody tries that garbage at my airline.

No pilot group can "give" U pilots the "right" to 50% of its "new" jobs, without first abrogating the seniority of its own pilots. No pilot group can permit its own members to be furloughed, while U pilots remain on property, without abrogating the seniority of its junior pilots. I know that the "higher pay" has been changed and removed, but that part of the original was also a crock of you know what.

I'm not asking you to accept my views and will not be uspset if you don't. Different strokes for different folks. If you think that the U pilots are "entitled" to ALL the new jobs at MESA, go ahead and give it to them. While you're at it, you can give whatever you don't give them to the America West pilots and you can also give the new turboprop flying in DEN to the furloughed United pilots. Whatever turns you on.

Remember, these are just my opinions. I'm not mad at you or at any MESA pilots. I see you as "victims" and, if anything, I feel sorry for you, not angry with you.

Best of luck.

 

[Uncle Don]

Re: Re: VOTE NO for the sake of the industry!!!

Again, if Eagle had the same scope clause as is in our TA, there would be only one list for ALL of AMR

Yea, and if AMR had your TA, I'd be fly a 777 with 9 days off, and $1.15/hr per diem.

VOTE NO!!! It is a piss poor TA that is the for-runner for a RACE FOR THE BOTTOM.

I KNOW YOU GUYS CAN GET A BETTER DEAL THAN THIS! There is no reason the anyone needs to give 75% of their month to a company, and spend 25% of their time with their family. Unless they are making 1.5millon a year, and when I read your TA, you would be making about 15k a year.

FOR THE SAKE OF THE INDUSTRY.......VOTE NO!!!

 

[dickie q]

I see you as "victims" and, if anything, I feel sorry for you, not angry with you.

Best of luck.

With all due respect, I feel sorry for those of you that do not understand the value of scope. The writing is on the wall, open your eyes and take a long, hard look at the industry around you. Most obvious is Republic, but mark my words, this is only the beginning, many more will follow. I feel fortunate that we were able to secure industry leading scope in this TA without a concessionary contract, I only hope ya'll will be as fortunate. Good luck. I cast my YES vote today.

 

[nimtz]

With all due respect, I feel sorry for those of you that do not understand the value of scope. The writing is on the wall, open your eyes and take a long, hard look at the industry around you. Most obvious is Republic, but mark my words, this is only the beginning, many more will follow. I feel fortunate that we were able to secure industry leading scope in this TA without a concessionary contract, I only hope ya'll will be as fortunate. Good luck. I cast my YES vote today.

My lord you have no respect for this profession at all do you! Hey we are just glorified bus drivers after all! Give yourself another big old bonus Johnny O! You deserve it...

 

[surplus1]

With all due respect, I feel sorry for those of you that do not understand the value of scope. The writing is on the wall, open your eyes and take a long, hard look at the industry around you. Most obvious is Republic, but mark my words, this is only the beginning, many more will follow. I feel fortunate that we were able to secure industry leading scope in this TA without a concessionary contract, I only hope ya'll will be as fortunate. Good luck. I cast my YES vote today.

With equal respect to you, and speaking only for myself, it is not the value of Scope that I fail to understand. I am pleased that you obtained the Scope that you feel you need and that we should all have. However, I also think that the price you are paying to get it, is higher than it should be, i.e., too high.

Yes, I'm aware of Freedom and also aware of Republic. Yes, there will be more to follow. These alter egos have come into existence as a management reaction to ALPA policies. Since ALPA helped to create these monsters, it should be able to defend you as ALPA "clients" from the consequences. Apparently it is doing so by giving you (at MESA/Freedom) a Scope clause, at the expense of 50% of your new flying and NO significant improvement in the rest of your CBA. In the case of Republic, since CHQ's union pilots are not ALPA, it simply turns its back, while furloughed ALPA pilots get jobs at the expense of Chautauqua's pilots. One "union" taking from another union. That's rotten to the core.

ALPA's "scope policy" is the culprit in the case of Freedom and ALPA's "jets for jobs protocol" is the culprit re Republic. The whole mess is the result of dirty politics at its worst. ALL regional pilots will suffer as a direct result of these misguided ALPA policies.

To tell me that your contract is not concessionary is technical double speak and nonsense. Your contract was "concessionary" before you started negotiations and your TA merely forces you to keep it that way. Over at CHQ, it is probable they will be forced to emulate you. PDT/ALG/PSA have been coerced into to giving up their contracts; the principal reason being "jets for jobs". Jets, by the way, that they are not likely to get and that YOU will get instead. The rest of us will ultimately be "forced" to give up the gains that we have made as fallout from this. Does that give you solace? Even to the most imaginative, there is NOTHING GOOD about any of this.

With all due respect to you, if you fail to recognize what ALPA has really done, and how you and the rest of us are being "used" to further the interests of others, you are extremely naive. My friend, your new Scope is a hollow victory at best. Scope IS important, but at the grocery store it is not a substitute for food stamps.

As I said before, I feel sorry for the victims, i.e., regional pilots. We could not have a union less willing or less capable of representing our interests; nor more culpable of thrashing those interests. That's reality and it is also a sad state of affairs.

Good luck to all of us. Once this TA is ratified it won't be long before the rest of us will experience the "benefits" of your new Scope in the form of significantly reduced compensation, lost work rules, reduced benefits and NO Scope (which we already do not have). I wouldn't call that praiseworthy. Neither would I call it progress.

The difficulties at the "legacy" carriers may be the product of bad management and a poor economy. The problems of the regionals are the consequence of overt action by the labor union that allegedly represents them. Shameful and disgusting!