Let the rebuttals begin...

[CE402]

This senseless diatribe is brought to you by the fine editorial crew at PRAVDA. Oops, I'm sorry, I meant the Boston Globe. I'm always getting those two papers mixed up. (Apologies to the post-Cold War crowd for the obscure reference).

http://boston.com/dailyglobe/2002/01/09/editorial/security_for_small.html

I hope that came through as a link.

 

[Bluestreak]

Ted Kennedy's car has killed more people than my airplane.

 

[Timebuilder]

Thanks for the memory! Actually, the "Amerikan" newspaper most closely associated with Pravda was the New York Times, in a speech given, I believe, by Spiro Agnew in the late 60's. To this day, the Times is still the paper which most strongly supports legislation and regulation that seriously erodes our freedoms, including our freedom to squawk 1200 in a 172.

You won't find the Times or the Globe publishing an op-ed piece that calls for full implementation of our existing immigration laws, they will call instead for more restrictions on aviation.

 

[avbug]

Boston? Isn't that near Hungary?

 

[FL000]

Meanwhile, airfield owners have to look at all their operations, from flight schools to charters, with an acute awareness of how easily their planes can become destructive weapons

What about the 200 million registered vehicles in this country? I can do just as much damage with one of those, it's just going to be on the bottom floor! Not to mention the fact that almost every citiizen can operate one from about age 6. Compare McVeigh's damage with a Ryder truck to what a fully fueld King Air or Lear would do. I guarantee you the truck and explosives did more damage. Where's the outrage against panel trucks? CDL's? Tankers? Fertilizer manufacturers?

What is so special about airplanes? Is it just because the average Joe doesn't know anything about them? Are they mysterious? I'm sick and tired of the stupidity! I'm sick and tired of swimming upstream against all the morons! I talk to people all the time who are scared to die in a plane, so instead they DRIVE 750 miles!

I realize this editorial is about purposeful events, but it dovetails nicely with the general public's supreme idiocy concerning aviation. However, this liberal diatribe really shouldn't surprise me since it comes from Massachusetts.

 

[aero99]

Aircraft are mysterious and dangerous as far as most of the public looks at it and that is why acticles like this and the ball of crap Dateline reported on last night about the Tampa Kid will get printed and Ryder trucks and cars won't.

The media hypes anything aircraft related now. Last weekend in Dallas they had 5 different incidents to report from the SW flight with the drunk guy, to some Mooney in Ft.Worth that landed and had the gear collapse to some guy in a Cessna that didn't listen to ATIS. ( I made up the last one)

I'm sure we will start getting reports of prop strikes on NBC from here on out because it will somehow be related to terrorist acts.

Hating the media more and more every day.

 

[ksu_aviator]

Did anyone stop to think that this is just a copy cat crime, like the ones that followed Columbine (sp). Soon everyone in the media will forget about small airplanes and this will all be over. Remember, the media has an even shorter memory than the public.

 

[Jetscream32]

I agree totally with KSU. When was the last time you heard about Anthrax. That's right, it's all over and done with now because some kid wanted to kill himself in an airplane. If there is another attack it won't come in the form of an airplane, they have already been there and done that. Why do you think they used an airliner in the first place in the manner they did? Because it had not been done before. The media is way too quick to point out what we should have done. By the way, my New Year's Resolution is to not watch the news for a month and save the paper. That way I will really see how quickly they forget about the lates hype.

 

[learflyer]

I like how dateline last night tried to make it sound like
that sw airlines plane nearly hit the little cessna. I think they
said it was a miss of "only" one thousand feet. If only the media knew that that kind of thing happens everyday, and most of the time alot closer than one thousand feet!

 

[kilomike]

PRAVDA

I lived behind the Iron Curtain in Poland back in 1987 when I was a UNESCO volunteer. This garbage about comparing political liberalism with communism has GOT to stop. We are FREE in this country to be liberal or conservative. The Polish people did not have a choice in the matter. Communism denies people the opportunity to express their opinions, to run their own companies, and to develop their country to a better future. Liberalism does not do this. Liberals allow conservatives to express opinions, communists don't. Liberals aren't against free enterprise. It was a liberal labor leader in Poland who helped bring down communism there. (Lech Walesa, the leader of the Solidarity movement fought tooth and nail to end communism and later became Poland's President. Another former electrician runs the country now). Now in Poland, people are free to express themselves and own their own companies. I can say that the truth is probably found somewhere between liberal and conservative. I suggest to those who call the Globe and Times "PRAVDA" go spend a little time in Cuba or North Korea and you will realize that there is a BIG difference between liberalism and communism!

In most cases the truth lies somewhere in the middle and usually moderate ideas work best taking some ideas from liberalism such as working for a cleaner environment and from conservatism which include encouraging businesses with tax credits to create jobs. MODERATES RULE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[GoingHot]

The list of Famous "Moderates", is about as long as the list of Italian War Heroes.

 

[likeitis]

I'll have to agree with going hot. Those who play in the middle of the road are bound to be run over.

 

[James007]

Kilo Mike ,
I think that for the most part when conservatives joke about liberalism being close to comunism and liberals joke about conservatives being nazis usually are refering to extreme examples of each group that will not tolerate any one elses views that are difrent from their own. Believe me when I say most people do not , especially after 9/11 take their freedom for granted.
Jim
Just one pollock talking to another.

 

[Timebuilder]

Aviation has a pressing need to be proactive where the Times, the Globe, and Peter Jennings are concerned.
What makes the comparison of these big city papers (and the big three network news departments) to Pravda so appealing? Pravda was the offical party paper. In it you would find only severely muted opposition opinion, if you could find it at all. The New York Times, whose heart and soul are the "effete snobs" to which Agnew referred, live by the idea that they, along with the federal government, are so much smarter than the average American that they and those like them are the only ones truly qualified to lead. Want to teach a child? Only the public school, steered by the NEA and NOW, is appropriately sensitive, enlightened, and politically correct to do so. What you as a parent want is considered irrelevant. How the child "feels", not what is learned, is important. That is unless you are an editor, ancor, or politician. In that case, you kid goes to a private school...

To make a long post short, the similarity is this: only "our paper" ("...Pravda, the New York Times...") is the responsible engine of leadership, and other opinions, when mentioned, should only be belittled with a smirk. This is the Nazi ideal. Agree, or be eliminated.

We in aviation are inching closer to the kind of oppression that the Times favorite social model, Europe, has had for decades. Try to rent a 152 in England. Be prepared to pay about $175 USD.

We as pilots, know that being "moderate" can cost you your life and livelihood. Only the right action, at the right time, will provide the right outcome. Only our vigilance, in and out of the cockpit, will keep us safe, strong, and free. In the late 1700's, just as now, this is considered a radical idea. You won't find it in the Times.

 

[enigma]

Communism denies people the opportunity to express their opinions, to run their own companies, and to develop their country to a better future. Liberalism does not do this. Liberals allow conservatives to express opinions, communists don't. Liberals aren't against free enterprise.

Dream on. Ever heard of political correctness?
How can you say that Liberalism does not deny people free expression? Liberals control most college campus's and I dare you to be a student there and try to express an opinion that doesn't toe the liberal line.
And yes liberals are against free enterprise. You see, liberals fight against property rights every minute and property rights are the foundation of free enterprise.
Liberals search for any tiny excuse to deny propery rights.
Does a Golden Cheeked Warbler nest on your land? Then you can't clear the weeds that are otherwise known as juniper trees. Does a certain tufted tail mouse nest in your field? Then you can no longer cultivate the field. Does water stand in that low spot in your pasture for more than 20 days per year? If so it is a "wetland" and you not only can not use it, you must set back your usage lines a half mile. So a half acre low spot costs the farmer the productivity of a hundred acres, but the property taxes don't stop. I personally know a South Dakota farmer/crop duster, (we used to work together) who got out of farming largely due to that situation. To add insult to injury, the "
wetlands" were "discovered" by liberal students from California, who traveled around looking for any potential wetland and then called in their buddies in the Interior Deptartment whenever they "found " some stagnate water.
More Later

 

[FL000]

A liberal is just a conservative who hasn't been mugged yet.

 

[aggiepilot87]

A couple of points, Mr. Kilomike -

you said, "This garbage about comparing political liberalism with communism has GOT to stop." What now, Mr Kilomike. We can't speak out? What about you leftists being so pro-free speech? That's unless it's contrary to your agenda. Right!? How about political correctness? Talk about controlling thought and speech!!

"Liberals allow conservatives to express opinions..." see above.

"Liberals aren't against free enterprise." This comment is laughable. The leftists/libs HATE capitalism and free enterprise. It's "NOT FAIR" to everyone, therefore must be controlled or eliminated.

"Times "PRAVDA" go spend a little time in Cuba or North Korea and you will realize that there is a BIG difference between liberalism and communism!" I challenge thios comment also. The ten planks of the communist manifesto seems to match the leftist agenda pretty well... BTW, you been to Cuba or North Korea?

"encouraging businesses with tax credits to create jobs." Tax credits? How about reduction of or elimination of taxes? Why do you think the government has to keep their grubby fingers in everyones business. Whether it's highway funds, education funds or tax credits for businesses, there always have to be the strings attached. You know why?! It back to what timebuilder and enigma said, the govt and the elites think they're smarter than the people. This is really scary. It's one of the reasons we all need to keep and bear arms.

Tax credits don't create jobs. Businesses and people create jobs. This is where the liberal, big government socialists, the effete snobs, etc. all miss it. They think the government creates wealth and jobs. Your totally wrong - the people do.

finally... "MODERATES RULE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" A moderate is just someone who is not true to his beliefs.

 

[ifly4food]

Re: PRAVDA

I lived behind the Iron Curtain in Poland back in 1987 when I was a UNESCO volunteer. This garbage about comparing political liberalism with communism has GOT to stop. We are FREE in this country to be liberal or conservative. The Polish people did not have a choice in the matter. Communism denies people the opportunity to express their opinions, to run their own companies, and to develop their country to a better future. Liberalism does not do this. Liberals allow conservatives to express opinions, communists don't. Liberals aren't against free enterprise. It was a liberal labor leader in Poland who helped bring down communism there. (Lech Walesa, the leader of the Solidarity movement fought tooth and nail to end communism and later became Poland's President. Another former electrician runs the country now). Now in Poland, people are free to express themselves and own their own companies. I can say that the truth is probably found somewhere between liberal and conservative. I suggest to those who call the Globe and Times "PRAVDA" go spend a little time in Cuba or North Korea and you will realize that there is a BIG difference between liberalism and communism!

In most cases the truth lies somewhere in the middle and usually moderate ideas work best taking some ideas from liberalism such as working for a cleaner environment and from conservatism which include encouraging businesses with tax credits to create jobs. MODERATES RULE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

*sigh* Where do we find these people?

Though you have clearly demonstrated you know a lot about liberalism, I don't think you know the first thing about Communism. Therefore I challenge you:
Go read in order: The Communist Manifesto by Karl Marx, Atlas Shrugged by Ayn Rand, and then 1984 by George Orwell.
Then we'll sit here and debate Communism and it's relation to your liberal views.
Until then, I'll smoke a Cuban cigar, drink some Russian vodka, and enjoy our Capitalist society.

 

[kilomike]

I cannot believe the ignorance I am reading on this board. Supposedly you can fly a plane. But common sense is sorely lacking here.

First of all, some of you are claiming I am ignorant of communism and are calling ME a communist??!!! I LIVED behind the Iron Curtain and I can tell you first hand that it does not work! I am what is called "center-left" or moderate because I know that the other extreme of having no policies to keep the environment clean, etc. is equivalent to anarchy and is just as disastrous. Like you I do not support state owned businesses. But on the same hand there needs to be establishment of a minimum wage, for example. If left alone some companies would try to get away with paying people 50 cents an hour. I am sure you would not want that either.

Neither extreme of far left to far right works, and it sounds like some of you have been brainwashed by the likes of Rush Limbaugh, etc. who broadcast very one-sided information. I and other "liberals" (your words) support the right of such people to speak so we can listen to their one-sidedness and dismiss them. I dismiss your responses to my answers as an unwillingness to look beyond only one side of the issues. Your name calling (ie. Pravda) is not helping the cause of conservatism at all.

Grow up and maybe people would be more interested in hearing the conservative side of the issues. I happen to like William Buckley and William Safire, two conservative columnists, because they are businesslike in their writings and express their thoughts with intelligence. I hardly ever see childish rants from the likes of Bob Herbert (NY Times Columnist) who is an excellent progressive writer. Try reading him with an open mind. Look at both sides of the issues objectively and THEN decide how you feel, but PLEASE stop calling perfectly good newspapers "PRAVDA". Last time I checked the government does not dictate what is written in ANY of our newspapers. Maybe you don't like what is written on some of their pages, that's fine, but GROW UP. WE DO NOT LIVE IN A COMMUNIST COUNTRY, FOR WHICH I AM THANKFUL.

If it was a communist country do you think they would allow exchanges like these on flightinfo.com???? Hmmmm?????

Ok, kids, have an open mind about liberal vs. conservative view points. Some of you sound like you have your head up your #### and don't look at BOTH sides of issues before deciding. For example you don't have to be 100% with the NRA on gun issues or for total gun control either. While I support the basic right of owning guns, I believe that there should be some responsibilities involved--like knowing how to use it safely, and complying with appropriate, reasonable regulations. Do you think having a stoplight on a corner deprives you of the right of car ownership? I would hope you would not overreact that way. Rights should come with REASONABLE responsibilities. Look at the big picture folks.

In conclusion I say again that extremes do not work well. Look at communism and fascism. My moderate Republican aunt got me thinking and she helped me to learn that there are two or more sides to issues. Things in this world are not that simple. I see here a "knee jerk" response from the conservatives on this board (you are what you call people--knee jerk liberal? There are also knee jerk conservatives too!!!!) I would like to see more people truly take the time to research the issues from both the liberal and conservative perspectives. I am liberal on some aspects of issues and conservative with other aspects so it turns out moderate.

As a moderate, I am unimpressed with radicals on either side and have to be frank when I see this kind of writing. I am not opposed at all by your right to say these things but I am just getting less and less impressed when I see this kind of writing and thinking.

 

[Timebuilder]

Having worked as one of those liberal journalists, I CAN speak accurately and authoritatively on this subject. By the same token, I can tell you about brainwashing, and the nature of truth. Maybe, in 20 years or so, you will have sufficient life experience to see your forest for its trees.

Now, go to Barnes and Noble. Read "Bias", by another former employee in the field. You will then understand why more people are watching Fox News than the Big 3 networks.

You would be well served to revisit your core beliefs. I know that many moderates have none, that's why they are able to be so "open minded." I encourage some training in critical thinking. America didn't become the greatest country on earth without it.

And yes, any group that calls a puddle in a field a "wetland" is indeed, an environmentalist wacko.

I'm thankful that we don't live in a communist country, too. We didn't dodge that bullet because of moderate beliefs, though. Although the government is not in charge of the NY Times, it's editorial staff believes that all solutions to all problems should come from the government, and that idea, my friend, is just a few doors down from the old Pravda staff.

 

[aggiepilot87]

Hey, Kilomike -

I spoke with some civility in my reply. But you've either run out of decent responses or chose voluntarily to get a bad attitude.

You said, "I cannot believe the ignorance I am reading on this board. Supposedly you can fly a plane. But common sense is sorely lacking here." Ignorance?! A typical elitist liberal attitude. If it's contrary to your viewpoint, it's wrong.

"If left alone some companies would try to get away with paying people 50 cents an hour." If 50 cents an hour is all the jobs worth, then that's all it should pay. Otherwise, your promoting inflation and supressing the situation where people strive to gain more by working more effectively.

"...and it sounds like some of you have been brainwashed by the likes of Rush Limbaugh, etc. who broadcast very one-sided information." So you don't think we're able to think on our own, Mr. Kilomike? That's where you and I differ... you just regurgitate the "party line" and conservatives think more for themselves. Particularly the ones who are true to their beliefs (which you call extrememists).

"I and other "liberals" (your words) support the right of such people to speak so we can listen to their one-sidedness and dismiss them." You skipped the issue of policical correctness. This is a favorite agenda item for 'you liberals' which stifles thought, speech and writing. Give me a break! Also, what's with this '"liberals" (your words)'? You spoke of being a liberal 8 times in you first post above.

"Grow up and maybe people would be more interested in hearing the conservative side of the issues." What?

"I hardly ever see childish rants from the likes of Bob Herbert (NY Times Columnist) who is an excellent progressive writer." I try hard to *NOT* read the NY Times. I concentrate on the Wall Street Journal or Fox News, exclusively.

"but GROW UP." more thoughtful response... Are you a teacher? Do you have to say this at work over and over every day?

"Some of you sound like you have your head up your #### and don't look at BOTH sides of issues before deciding." Two points here... One, can't you respond without the insults?? Two, you're getting all wound up because WE DON'T AGREE WITH YOUR """LIBERAL""" AGENDA!

"For example you don't have to be 100% with the NRA on gun issues or for total gun control either." I think you'll find that the NRA supports a reasonable amount of safety and control of firearms ownership and purchases. You think they are against all safety and control??? Then you're not a well informed critic.

"--knee jerk liberal?" never heard of such a thing. I believe all liberals are just concerned about *feeling good about themselves* and they do this by giving away *other peoples* money and liberties.

"I would like to see more people truly take the time to research the issues from both the liberal and conservative perspectives." I have, and conclude that the the liberal agenda matches the Ten Planks of the Communist Manifesto very closely.

"I am not opposed at all by your right to say these things but I am just getting less and less impressed when I see this kind of writing and thinking." I'm not trying to impress you. I'm trying to show others that you're wrong.

 

[CE402]

KM,
In the immortal words of Sgt. Hulka: "Lighten up, Francis."

I don't care if you had borscht with the Premier, or if the title of your Phd dissertation was "Why crappy American newspapers are not at all like crappy newspapers from other countries..." No matter what your background, your condescending tone is out of line when it is directed at individuals on this forum. If you want to be condescending and mean, direct it at institutions (such as the Globe), like I do. It's relaxing, enjoyable, tastes great, AND is less filling.
The fact that I think that the Globe is the propoganda pulpit for the wine cooler and brie crowd from the People's Republic of Cambridge (ahh, that felt good...see?) is secondary to the main point: The Globe has repeatedly proven itself to be anti-aviation. They are against improving Logan. They side with the Volvo Militia up in Bedford and Lexington when it comes to restricing the use of Hanscom Field. Yet somehow they find it ok to print multiple editorials by Michael "Tank" Dukakis in which he tells everyone "Don't fly, take the train." They conveniently leave out the fact that he is now the Chairman of the Board at Amtrak. Their anti-aviation stance is something that all of us on this board, regardless of politcal affliliation, should find abhorrent.
Feel free to make a sarcastic comment about Fox news, or the Herald, or whatever. Feel free to express whatever you feel and believe. Just remember that talking down to people like they don't know better and you do is like school in July: "There ain't no class in it!" (Plagarized from Fat Albert)

I wish you safe passage on all of your flights.

Signed,
A newly converted A&M Aggie fan (from MA no less!)

 

[kilomike]

The Globe's AVIATION reporting is poor

CE402,

I have to agree, that the Boston Globe does not do well when it comes to discussing aviation issues. Geez, couldn't that have been the whole point of this thread without all the anti liberal diatribes????!!! One does not have to even be remotely conservative to be dissatisfied with the Globe's lack of good aviation reporting.

I wish safe flights for you, too.

Kilomike

 

[yipstick]

Gotta love it

I just gotta tell you guys how entertaining it is to watch these threads develop. I've seen this one go from a 9/11 discussion to a political bombasting in the blink of an eye. Sheesh, you guys are sensitive. Hey, man, we're all in this together so stop your name-calling and get back in the fight. Here's what it's all about.

9-11 Tragic? YES. Successful for the terrorists? HELL, YES! But only because we've given that SOB exactly what he wanted. Not the sensless killing of thousands of innocent people, but a genuine, innate fear of everyday living as we once knew and fought for. My God, people, this knee-jerk reaction to those events is the ultimate terror. Increased screening at US airports resulting in extreme delays and inconvenience is nothing but that. It only serves to discourage the American public from flying and in these already-economically-stressed-times, there is a ripple effect which will most assuredly be felt, in some way, by generations to come. Let's face it, we're closing the barn door after the horse got out and no matter what we do to deter terrorism, it won't work because some suicidal maniac out there will always find a way to thwart our best efforts. So here's my solution: To prevent aeronautical terrorism completely and assuredly, simply ban all forms of aviation. Oops, sorry, that won't work. So here's plan "B": Just continue as before and ignore the fargin' bastages (Johnny Dangerously). Hey, life is dangerous and there are no guarantees. Nobody stopped driving their cars (50,000 killed every year) did they?

 

[bobbysamd]

Aviation Reporting

The problem with news "reporting" of aviation is a lack of enlightened reporters and a lack of qualified and available aviation spokesmen to educate them. Reporters look for news. They have pages in a newspaper or hours of radio airtime to fill. There are plenty of slow news days. They will inflate even the smallest angle into a story.

I know; I was a news reporter. I reported plenty of stories that I didn't understand fully and/or weren't 100% newsworthy. Sometimes, stories are poorly attributed. Reporters print or air what their sources tell them without digging deeper, and the facts and impression portrayed can be distorted. Our newsroom's rule of thumb was to verify a story with two sources. But what if both sources are providing inaccurate information.

Now, we're hearing stories that the Tampa kid had the keys to the airplane for his preflight. People want to enact regulations prohibiting that practice. The reporting has been all one-sided. A good reporter would have sought reaction from an aviation professional, such as a chief instructor or FBO operator. Or an FAA Aviation Safety Counselor. That person(s) would have said that giving someone the keys and sending him out to preflight is an entirely normal part of a training flight. This would have given the event perspective by demonstrating that this was an isolated event. Perhaps then the hysteria would have been muted (can you mute hysteria? ).

Hopefully, AOPA will step up to the plate and educate Congress that this event was an anomaly before an hysterical public goes off the deep end and demands stupid overregulation of preflights . You watch; it could happen.

 

[kilomike]

Well said, yipstick and bobbysamd!!

 

[TailStrike]

Normally I wouldn't weigh in on this one, but I remembered a great quote that you guys who watch Fox might enjoy. I believe it was Churchill who said, " if you're not a liberal at 20, you have no heart; but if you're not a conservative at 40 you have no brain."

KiloMike, I enjoy reading your posts, and I think you might even be the left-leaning moderate you claim to be. Although I disagree with many of your posts on this board, I have to admit that you spell and punctuate better than most Just remember, most of the people on this board are conservatives who think THEY are moderates too, and if your plan is to convert them all, you have a long road ahead. I'll enjoy following your progress, though.

 

[ifly4food]

I've been gone a few days, but I want to weigh in again.
I disagreed with KM's post and challenged him to a friendly debate. His response was to call me names and such. I'm still waiting for the debate.
I agree with those who reported this post as being off-topic. I disagree with those who reported me for being an ultra-conservative to the Webmaster and having the audacity to chime in.
For the record, I would consider myself a moderate, though I deffinitely lean right. I also am a moderator on this board, a job I take seriously.
However, being a moderator isn't going to keep me from debating on this board. Such would be too boring to even bother coming here. In light of this, I don't appreciate those who feel the need to "tattle" to the webmaster because I voiced my opinion. If you want to debate me, then do it openly and thoughtfully. I promise I will respond in such, though perhaps in my own sarcastic way. Also, as I said before, the moderator hat is completely separate. I do not discriminate against those who debate me.
Just some thoughts I wanted to share, now back to the program...

 

[kilomike]

I fly for food,

Tattle? I was just advising the Webmaster that I come to the board for aviation information and news and wanted to encourage the moderators to stick to the topic. I just feel that this is an aviation board. No politics had to enter the initial post whose point was that the Boston Globe does a poor job of reporting on aviation issues. This is an aviation board and that's what I want to read.

 

[328dude]

Kilomike:

You started this bub!!!

Cheers