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Leave Comair for JB, AirTran, ATA??
- Thread starter LASvegas777
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General Lee
Well-known member
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- Aug 24, 2002
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- 20,442
Flaps30 and Surplus1,
You guys are really cool.
First to Flaps30,
Ok, what? McFly? What are you talking about? Why would the "senior guys" sell out Song when they fly for Song? The 757 and 767 are not separate catagories. We have over 3000 757/767 pilots at Delta---all typed on it. They make up the largest group of pilots at Delta. The union does not have to take a pay cut if they do not negotiate it---the pay scales are NOT subject to Force mejeur. No one can hand us a pay cut if we don't want it. Do you understand yet? Now, we may want to help chip in ---but there would be a snapback --no doubt. Leo Mullin stated that no Non Union employees would take pay cuts. Hmmmm. well, that doesn't sound like we are doing that bad, does it? Wouldn't everyone have to chip in if it was that bad? If for some reason Dalpa decided to change the rates, there would also be a clause to allow the Song lines of time an extra 5 hours to make up the difference. Also, management stated that it would not separate the 757 and the 767 bacause they have HUGE flexibility with having 3000 pilots able to fly all 4 types of 757-767's (757, 767-200, 767-300Dom, 767-300ER). So, where did you overhear this gossip about Song taking a paycut? The press? They want labor to take cuts, and refuse to blame management for anything. Look at the United fiasco---it was all the pilot's fault---including trying to buy USair and making Avolar.
Don't believe everything you hear. And you think it will be how long before ASA guys get on with us? Well, it might be 4-5 years, but it really will be worth it. Everytime you see a Delta plane be sure to think about why you won't be flying it. There sure are a lot of them out there, especially in CVG. The answer is easy---Your MEC.
Surplus1,
Could you see Lawson as an MD88 FO at Delta? Neither can I, and that is why he is dangerous to all of you. He doesn't care about any of your junior pilots, only himself and his 2 or 3 hundred cronies who would never pass an interview at Delta.
Your growth was just boosted to 43% of our flying, and that isn't good enough. We will never give in to the unlimited CRJ70's and possible 90 seaters--because that would hurt the mainline by reducing our growth potential. We were supportive of you during your strike, and now you aren't supportive of our furloughs---it is as simple as that. Your co-hort Flaps30 doesn't think our furloughed guys would take an $18,000 a year job at the bottom of Comair. He obviously doesn't think much about his own situation, does he? I think there would be many takers, but we'll never know. Some people just love to fly. I do---everyday. So, keep thanking Lawson, because I know he will take care of you guys right through your next unsuccessful strike. (The Delta deal could have ensured you a pay raise--but hey, just try another strike in a couple years---we might chip in again to help you pay the bills----NOT) Good Day!
Bye Bye--General Lee
You guys are really cool.
First to Flaps30,
Ok, what? McFly? What are you talking about? Why would the "senior guys" sell out Song when they fly for Song? The 757 and 767 are not separate catagories. We have over 3000 757/767 pilots at Delta---all typed on it. They make up the largest group of pilots at Delta. The union does not have to take a pay cut if they do not negotiate it---the pay scales are NOT subject to Force mejeur. No one can hand us a pay cut if we don't want it. Do you understand yet? Now, we may want to help chip in ---but there would be a snapback --no doubt. Leo Mullin stated that no Non Union employees would take pay cuts. Hmmmm. well, that doesn't sound like we are doing that bad, does it? Wouldn't everyone have to chip in if it was that bad? If for some reason Dalpa decided to change the rates, there would also be a clause to allow the Song lines of time an extra 5 hours to make up the difference. Also, management stated that it would not separate the 757 and the 767 bacause they have HUGE flexibility with having 3000 pilots able to fly all 4 types of 757-767's (757, 767-200, 767-300Dom, 767-300ER). So, where did you overhear this gossip about Song taking a paycut? The press? They want labor to take cuts, and refuse to blame management for anything. Look at the United fiasco---it was all the pilot's fault---including trying to buy USair and making Avolar.
Don't believe everything you hear. And you think it will be how long before ASA guys get on with us? Well, it might be 4-5 years, but it really will be worth it. Everytime you see a Delta plane be sure to think about why you won't be flying it. There sure are a lot of them out there, especially in CVG. The answer is easy---Your MEC.
Surplus1,
Could you see Lawson as an MD88 FO at Delta? Neither can I, and that is why he is dangerous to all of you. He doesn't care about any of your junior pilots, only himself and his 2 or 3 hundred cronies who would never pass an interview at Delta.
Your growth was just boosted to 43% of our flying, and that isn't good enough. We will never give in to the unlimited CRJ70's and possible 90 seaters--because that would hurt the mainline by reducing our growth potential. We were supportive of you during your strike, and now you aren't supportive of our furloughs---it is as simple as that. Your co-hort Flaps30 doesn't think our furloughed guys would take an $18,000 a year job at the bottom of Comair. He obviously doesn't think much about his own situation, does he? I think there would be many takers, but we'll never know. Some people just love to fly. I do---everyday. So, keep thanking Lawson, because I know he will take care of you guys right through your next unsuccessful strike. (The Delta deal could have ensured you a pay raise--but hey, just try another strike in a couple years---we might chip in again to help you pay the bills----NOT) Good Day!
Bye Bye--General Lee
Last edited:
general lee
as I said before, get over it ! I think you need some professional help.
Anyway, you never answered the question and since I have a week before my new job here it is.
What did the senior guys get in return for the scope increase to 44% ? They changed it 7% overnight !!! 37% to 44%, and even a democrat like you can do that math, its a bunch of flying.
You know they got something, what was it ?
as I said before, get over it ! I think you need some professional help.
Anyway, you never answered the question and since I have a week before my new job here it is.
What did the senior guys get in return for the scope increase to 44% ? They changed it 7% overnight !!! 37% to 44%, and even a democrat like you can do that math, its a bunch of flying.
You know they got something, what was it ?
General Lee
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2002
- Posts
- 20,442
Flaps30,
I don't need professional help, on my days off I watch Dr. Phil. Anyways, what the senior guys got was a number-----a percentage number. After all of this crap blew up (9-11, force Manuer, 2 consecutive losing quarters...etc) we lost the percentage number of DCI flying. The senior guys or Dalpa negotiators wanted to again have an exact number for the percentage. So, in the end, they now have that number----43% that is the benchmark. Yes, I know there is a stipulation that in case Delta really heads south---the number could possibly go to 49%, but at that point ASA/Comair would be sold off for the $$.
We are currently doing other negotiations to benefit us---like the furlough arbitration and the CRAF flying. Apparently the CRAF flying will be VERY beneficial to Delta($$$$) and we have to negotiate who flies that and where crews stay etc. (Kuwait or Rome??etc) I also just read on another board that ASA guys are asking how they can contribute to our furlough fund. Wow, those guys know how to work it, and will be rewarded eventually.
Bye Bye---General Lee
I don't need professional help, on my days off I watch Dr. Phil. Anyways, what the senior guys got was a number-----a percentage number. After all of this crap blew up (9-11, force Manuer, 2 consecutive losing quarters...etc) we lost the percentage number of DCI flying. The senior guys or Dalpa negotiators wanted to again have an exact number for the percentage. So, in the end, they now have that number----43% that is the benchmark. Yes, I know there is a stipulation that in case Delta really heads south---the number could possibly go to 49%, but at that point ASA/Comair would be sold off for the $$.
We are currently doing other negotiations to benefit us---like the furlough arbitration and the CRAF flying. Apparently the CRAF flying will be VERY beneficial to Delta($$$$) and we have to negotiate who flies that and where crews stay etc. (Kuwait or Rome??etc) I also just read on another board that ASA guys are asking how they can contribute to our furlough fund. Wow, those guys know how to work it, and will be rewarded eventually.
Bye Bye---General Lee
TriStar_drvr
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 27, 2001
- Posts
- 427
Back to the original question: It depends if you 're a gambling man. At ATA you could exceed the 50 seat RJ pay in a little over 16 months if you were hired today (assuming there are no contract concessions.) ATA has been around for 30 years, however that doesn't mean squat in the airline business, as it may not be around a year from now. However, if it does survive, you would most likely make more at ATA than at Comair.
So it all depends. Do you want security? Or are you willing to take a risk for possible higher financial returns? Or maybe you just want to fly bigger jets? Of course who's to say Comair won't be flying 737s or 757s in the future...
So it all depends. Do you want security? Or are you willing to take a risk for possible higher financial returns? Or maybe you just want to fly bigger jets? Of course who's to say Comair won't be flying 737s or 757s in the future...
gen lee
At least you finally answered the question. Still smells like a sellout, 43-44% wow !!
As far a some azz kiss from an ASA wanting to give part of his 24K a year to some guy who made 50K last year, more power to him. I saw the ALPA board, you do have those ASA guys eating out of your hand with those future jobs. Keep that carrot out there if it makes you feel better. I'm outta here, going Blue.
At least you finally answered the question. Still smells like a sellout, 43-44% wow !!
As far a some azz kiss from an ASA wanting to give part of his 24K a year to some guy who made 50K last year, more power to him. I saw the ALPA board, you do have those ASA guys eating out of your hand with those future jobs. Keep that carrot out there if it makes you feel better. I'm outta here, going Blue.
General Lee
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2002
- Posts
- 20,442
Flap30,
By the way, just as a side note---Delta cancelled the March 2nd furloughs--20 total. I don't know if this is permanent, but we had the arbitation hearing last week, and word is we MAY HAVE won, or atleast settled. I know the IRAQ thing is still out there, and they may try to pull something later, but this is atleast good news for right now. There is a large increase in CRAF flying and the retirements have been large lately. Let's hope this is all over fast (war etc.) and then we can start to get our pilots back, and then eventually the ASA pilots.
Bye Bye--General Lee
By the way, just as a side note---Delta cancelled the March 2nd furloughs--20 total. I don't know if this is permanent, but we had the arbitation hearing last week, and word is we MAY HAVE won, or atleast settled. I know the IRAQ thing is still out there, and they may try to pull something later, but this is atleast good news for right now. There is a large increase in CRAF flying and the retirements have been large lately. Let's hope this is all over fast (war etc.) and then we can start to get our pilots back, and then eventually the ASA pilots.
Bye Bye--General Lee
General Lee
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2002
- Posts
- 20,442
Flaps30,
Well, you are a Comair pilot, right? If you haven't figured it out yet I am disgusted with your MEC's position on our furloughs as hostages. I am very happy that ASA took the BOLD move to hire 13 of our guys/girls, and I look forward to them coming on board eventually down the road. I think you guys at Comair could have changed Lawson's mind and allowed some of our guys out on the street a shot at the BOTTOM of your list. You too could have had the chance to move up to Delta if you wanted, but no. That is why I mentioned it. Good luck.
Bye Bye---General Lee
Well, you are a Comair pilot, right? If you haven't figured it out yet I am disgusted with your MEC's position on our furloughs as hostages. I am very happy that ASA took the BOLD move to hire 13 of our guys/girls, and I look forward to them coming on board eventually down the road. I think you guys at Comair could have changed Lawson's mind and allowed some of our guys out on the street a shot at the BOTTOM of your list. You too could have had the chance to move up to Delta if you wanted, but no. That is why I mentioned it. Good luck.
Bye Bye---General Lee
Otto_Pilot
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 2, 2003
- Posts
- 69
trainerjet
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2002
- Posts
- 507
It's amazing....(or I guess it's not amazing at all, just typical). Someone makes a post asking for thoughts and opinions of someone fairly senior at Comair leaving for jetBlue, AirTran or ATA, and it turns into another Comair vs. Delta p!ssing contest.
75% or more of the posts on this thread have nothing to do with the original question, just more of the same old, same old, DAL/CMR in-fighting.
The ALPA boards are totally dominated by it. You'd be hard pressed to go over there and find anything that doesn't have something to do with this ongoing p!ssing contest, or the RJDC debate..which is directly related.
It get's awfully old. If you have nothing to say on this thread about the original subjet...TAKE IT SOMEWHERE ELSE. WHERE SOMEONE ACTUALLY CARES.
Now, having said that. It would be hard to give up the 5 years of seniority that the original poster mentioned for the bottom of either JB, AirTran or ATA's seniority list. But these companies are growing, even in these tough times in the industy. And personally, I'd rather be anywhere than mixed up in the animosity and in-fighting and bad blood that seems to exist between Comair and Delta. Or maybe it just seems that way because there are the same 5 or 6 pilots on each side that dominate the message boards, both here and on the ALPA boards, with the same messages, again and again and again....ad nauseum.
75% or more of the posts on this thread have nothing to do with the original question, just more of the same old, same old, DAL/CMR in-fighting.
The ALPA boards are totally dominated by it. You'd be hard pressed to go over there and find anything that doesn't have something to do with this ongoing p!ssing contest, or the RJDC debate..which is directly related.
It get's awfully old. If you have nothing to say on this thread about the original subjet...TAKE IT SOMEWHERE ELSE. WHERE SOMEONE ACTUALLY CARES.
Now, having said that. It would be hard to give up the 5 years of seniority that the original poster mentioned for the bottom of either JB, AirTran or ATA's seniority list. But these companies are growing, even in these tough times in the industy. And personally, I'd rather be anywhere than mixed up in the animosity and in-fighting and bad blood that seems to exist between Comair and Delta. Or maybe it just seems that way because there are the same 5 or 6 pilots on each side that dominate the message boards, both here and on the ALPA boards, with the same messages, again and again and again....ad nauseum.
General Lee said:
Gen Lee,
Dude, if you're really a Delta pilot, I can't figure out why you spend so much of your free time on this message board turning every topic from job advice to war in Iraq into some Comair versus Delta thread and making 8th grade comments (see above). Most Delta pilots I talk to are really cool and don't care about this crap. So what gives? Turn off that monitor and discover something called sunshine. Try it...you'll like it.
Otto
higherflyer
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- Jun 2, 2002
- Posts
- 89
jstyle13 said:
Better go check out the Mickey D's thread...
http://forums.flightinfo.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14251&perpage=25&pagenumber=1
General Lee
Well-known member
- Joined
- Aug 24, 2002
- Posts
- 20,442
Otto,
Yes dude, I am a Delta pilot, and I have a lot of friends that were furloughed and would have like the opportunity to maybe fly for Comair, but no. A lot of the Delta guys you know don't care? Hmmmm. Well, most of the Captains I fly with say we should never hire another Comair guy/girl---and you should care about that. It really is too bad if your friends don't care. I hope nothing bad ever happens to them.
Trainerjet,
Yeah, I know this gets old, and I swear I was over it on this board until about a week ago when I read something from a Comair guy that flamed me up again. I will try to stop posting on this. Unfortunately this really seems to be a dead issue. I am just glad that Delta seems to be stopping furloughs for the time being. Sorry about the in-fighting.
Bye Bye----General Lee
Yes dude, I am a Delta pilot, and I have a lot of friends that were furloughed and would have like the opportunity to maybe fly for Comair, but no. A lot of the Delta guys you know don't care? Hmmmm. Well, most of the Captains I fly with say we should never hire another Comair guy/girl---and you should care about that. It really is too bad if your friends don't care. I hope nothing bad ever happens to them.
Trainerjet,
Yeah, I know this gets old, and I swear I was over it on this board until about a week ago when I read something from a Comair guy that flamed me up again. I will try to stop posting on this. Unfortunately this really seems to be a dead issue. I am just glad that Delta seems to be stopping furloughs for the time being. Sorry about the in-fighting.
Bye Bye----General Lee
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