Lear Typing: telling the good from the b

Timebuilder

Entrepreneur
Joined
Nov 25, 2001
Posts
4,625
Total Time
1634
I'm investigating costs and methods of getting typed in the 35/55. There is FSI, which is probably the most expensive, and there are some Florida guys who will put me in a Lear for $1700 an hour, sign me off and send me to a DPE for $1000 to $1200, and then add in two hours of Lear rental for the checkride. OY!

Can some of you list the Lear type places that you know who are both good and reasonable, where an SIC who knows the airplane can get this done quickly, and without a king's ransome?

Thanks!
 

Rick1128

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 10, 2002
Posts
919
Total Time
22000+
TB,

When I got typed, I used Chrysler Aviation in Van Nuys, CA. It was 10 years ago, but it cost me 6000 plus examiner fees. Took three days. With no Lear experience to speak of. But I studied the systems for weeks before hand. They are listed on the internet. I would talk with Stel if you can. He is a crazy Greek ( they all are) but he is a good guy.

Richard
 

bobbysamd

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Posts
5,710
Total Time
4565
Mike Pappas

Talk to Mike Pappas at Flight Crew Systems, Inc. in Carlsbad, California, just north of San Diego. Although Mike primarily does Citation types, he also does Lear ratings. I went to Mike twelve years ago for my Citation type when he was Professional Airline Systems.

Mike is an old Western Airlines pilot who was picked up by Delta when it purchased Western. Not only is he a great guy and teaches an enjoyable course, he is extremely savvy about the business. His advice and counsel alone is worth the course. I can't speak highly enough of Mike Pappas and my experience with him earning my Citation type.

Good luck with getting the type.
 

Timebuilder

Entrepreneur
Joined
Nov 25, 2001
Posts
4,625
Total Time
1634
I was just loking up Van Nuys. It must be a busy place: Air Nav has 34 businesses listed on the airport.

Any other type places? Any in the Northeast?
 

TurboS7

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 25, 2001
Posts
2,261
Total Time
19,210
If your employer is worth anything at all he should type you. This business of going and buying a type so you can work is ridiculous.I would offer to pay for the fuel and the examiner and use the company airplane. If he pays for the whole thing I would agree to work for him for a year as a captain. Sounds like you and your employer need to have a heart to heart talk. I have not paid for any type rating though I have always agreed via a gentleman agreement to hang around for a year. If you can get your employer to let you fly the jet from the left seat on the ferry legs that really will help you. That is the way we do things here in South Florida. If not, Univeral at Boca and Tom Boy at FLL(National Jets) are looking for Lear drivers right now. They both want guys that have a little gray in the hair, the customers like that.
 
Last edited:
3

350DRIVER

I agree completely with TurboS7- At this point of the ball game the employer should pick up all costs which should include the "type"- I am going to transition into the jets very shortly and my company has inhouse authorization to give both the SIC and also type rides so I am unsure of the costs that you would be spending to go out on your own and "purchase" a type- (we don't operate any Lears)

Usually a 1 year "training contract" is all that is required and in return the employee won't have to pay for this- Did your employer approach you regarding this.??

C H E E R S

3 5 0
 

501261

Consigliere
Joined
May 27, 2002
Posts
829
Total Time
-
TurboS7 couldn't have said it any better. Timbuilder, seems like you have some Lear SIC time, then why is your employer not going to type you? Since almost every insurance company requires simulator training these days and the cost difference between reccurrent SIC and upgrade PIC is minimal; most employers would want to type you and add another PIC!

If you still want to pay for the type, I have heard nothing but good things about Pappas in San Diego. However, you might want to wait a few more months and get the ATP and LRJET in the same ride! Thats the cheapest and easiest way to go.
 

Timebuilder

Entrepreneur
Joined
Nov 25, 2001
Posts
4,625
Total Time
1634
OK, I guess I can let you guys in on this a little.

My boss, while a really nice guy, has several much younger pilots who are in line ahead of me to be typed. They are his friends, and are younger than he is, so he can act as a mentor to them. I, on the other hand, am four years older than he is. It's a different dynamic, to be sure.

He may not "need" to type me for quite a while. One recent upgrading "friend" of my boss spent 1700 hours as an SIC. Too long for a guy like me to wait. I could be logging PIC time if I could get a type and pass the company PIC check. PIC jet time is valuable, to say the least.

If my intention was to stay where I am, then certainly I could wait to be typed, no charge, by my company. Frankly, I am working for about 15k less per year than other operators would pay a similar position. Even the new captains are underpaid compared to industry levels. Let's say I were to ask him to assist me in getting typed through the company. I'd be beholden to work for another year at sub-industry wages.

Finally, I have a lead from a coporate senior captain who tells me that his company may want to hire me in a few months. The difference in starting salary would make up for the cost of the type, and give me a couple of thousand extra to invest. I would only pay a little over 8k to do the upgrade training, and I'd be eligble to get on with a corporate flight department which could keep me working as long as I have a medical, and might even give me an opportunity to be typed in a Global later on.

Of course, having the type would show any prospective employer that I could be typed in his particular aircraft, and gives me more value in the marketplace in general.

I welcome all of your additional feedback.

PS: I've flown TWICE in the last 13 days. My boss's friends have flown more.

Bobby: Mike Pappas and his partner are only giving Citation types now.
 
Last edited:

JediNein

No One Special at all
Joined
Apr 28, 2002
Posts
1,256
Total Time
53 wks
Howdy!

Just a heads-up on Chrysler Aviation at VNY. They won't touch anyone for training unless they have 1500 hours total time. It also sounded like they really want to hire the folks they've trained. IOW, don't do our class unless we have an opening.

Second, Chrysler is looking for two high time Lear Captains. They have a L36 and L55 plus two Citations (550).

For all of the bad vibes about getting a type rating on your own, it's a REALLY good way to open the door at these places for questions. I heard about your type rating program, what can you tell me? Ok, when is a good time to apply? Thank you for the time. [mental note: file away information for later]

Fly SAFE!
Jedi Nein
 

TurboS7

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 25, 2001
Posts
2,261
Total Time
19,210
In that case if you have the bucks go for it. Just don't make an economic decision based on getting a captain job. I would financially figure on being in the right seat and if you get the captain job so much the better. I just wanted to make sure that the normal course was avialiable to you.
 

Timebuilder

Entrepreneur
Joined
Nov 25, 2001
Posts
4,625
Total Time
1634
Thanks.

I have no illusions about being hired as a captain. This would, howerver, be the second time that I missed a good SIC job due a lack of a type rating.

Are there any type companies in the notheast? Near Philly? New York?
 

bobbysamd

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Posts
5,710
Total Time
4565
Mike Pappas

Sorry to learn he's giving only Citation types now. Too bad. Mike's one of the best people around. Accordingly, I'd recommend getting a Citation type from Mike Pappas to anyone.

Good luck with finding someone for the Lear. And, Timebuilder, I, too, agree with your rationale in getting your type. Your situation is different than the usual hurry-up-before-I-get-too-old-and/or-I'm-rich-and-can-afford-to-cut-in-line-and-damm-the-rest-of-you P-F-T sob story.
 
Last edited:

enigma

good ol boy
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Posts
2,279
Total Time
>1500
Timebuilder,

I still say never give an employer anything. Because you're only perpetuating the kind of treatment that is now holding you back. But, in the corporate world, there are contract jobs that can be had to properly qualified pilots. Then, you are working for yourself. If you have the contacts to get such work, buying a type can be a very good investment. Others have suggested that you work a deal with your present employer, I don't agree. If you want a type, just buy it from some one who makes his living in the training world, instead of some employer who subsidizes his department on the backs of aspiring pilots.
Luck
8N
 

Timebuilder

Entrepreneur
Joined
Nov 25, 2001
Posts
4,625
Total Time
1634
Another factor is that all of my SIC training was in the airplane, after finishing the ground training. The lack of sim work means that I haven't had as much exposure to abnormal and emergency ops as I would like. Sim Com/Pan Am has a full 12 hours in the sim for their 9 day upgrade program, and I don't have to wait for a nod in order to get the chance.

No one knows of a type shop in the northeast?
 

bobbysamd

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 26, 2001
Posts
5,710
Total Time
4565
Referrals

Could Mike Pappas refer you?

Just an idea.
 

eriknorth

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 28, 2002
Posts
148
Total Time
almost
Just use microsoft. You can print out the certificate when you pass the checkride.:D
 
Top