Lear crash in Connecticut

[Gulfstream 200]

Learjets are very stable airplanes.

They get a bad rap because they are frequently a pilots "first jet". No, its not a girly jet like a Citation, but its certainly not some untameable beast that some make it out to be.

Its just an airplane.

 

[bigD]

No, its not a girly jet like a Citation

LOL!

 

[CRFLyPutt]

Maybe I'm looking back with rose colored glasses, (it has been about five years since I sat in a 35) but I didn't find a 35 hard to fly. I admit that it will bite the stupid, but I find the actual flying qualities very easy to like. I'm speaking of things like control feel, etc. The airplane will lose energy very quickly at low speed, but a little discipline and dedication to maintaining the proper airspeed is all that is necessary to keep everything well inside the envelope.

Most of my Lear time is 55, with only about 1000hours in a 35, but I wouldn't hesitate to fly a 35 for the rest of my career. Matter of fact, I'd trade the Maddog in on a 35 in a heartbeat. Talk about a poor flying airplane. The -80 is a truck. Heavy controls, slow response, slow climb, etc, etc, etc.

regards,
enigma

Actually the 55 and 31 with the longhorn wings require a bit more planning than the 35's especially in a descent. Case in point, when I first started flying the 55 the person who we are talking about, Jerrod the guy who was killed this past week, was with me on a trip to Harlingen with a medical team from one of he hospitals we fly for. I wanted to start my descent early, being it was night and I really wanted to get down early. Jerrod being more experienced suggested I wait at least another 15-20 miles before I initiated the descent. I said OK, but didn't feel comfortable doing this. Result , I went screaming over the top of airport at 2000 feet with no hope of geting the aircraft down spoilers and all. Jerrod who was more experienced and could have made it without a thought sat over in the right seat shaking his head, laughing his ass off saying, "OK maybe that was a little too much for you to handle at this stage of the game."

 

[Timebuilder]

Result , I went screaming over the top of airport at 2000 feet with no hope of geting the aircraft down spoilers and all.

It's easy to get behind the airplane when you first start flying jets, particularly faster ones like the Lears. I didn't find the 55 to be more of a challenge, though. If anything, I found it to be much more well-mannered than the 35. It has better (newer) avionics, and less rolling inertia because of the lack of tip tanks. This is important if you have a cheap fuel deal at home, and have to fly to a NY metro area airport to pick up the customer. You plan to land just under max landing weight, and if it's a short flight, you still have fuel in the tips that make for some interesting control experiences until you become familiar with the 35!!

I had one experience in the 55 where I got a little closer to the airport than I wanted to be, and I was still up at 10k. Spoilers and gear helped me get it right down to 1000 AGL, and with a left base to final turn I was right on the vasi. I tell you this to mention that it wasn't the fact that I was in the 55 at the time that caused me to be close and high, it was the same lack of planning that I might have had in the 35 with the boss acting as my FO. Maybe he was waiting to see when I would initiate my descent, or maybe he had been enjoying the ride, too. He never admitted either possibility. He DID get on my back about using the brakes to get off at the ramp, instead of rolling out an extra 2000 feet to slow down. I got the "brakes cost $200" lecture.

In any event, I'm glad you had a good learning expereince. In the end, Jerrod will give us all some advice on flying again, maybe saving one of our lives in the process.

 

[WrightAvia]

http://www.wfsb.com/

For those looking for more news on the lear crash in CT...there are some video clips on this page. You have to scroll down below the "today's headlines" section to find them.

The video captioned "JET HAD NO PREVIOUS SAFETY INCIDENTS" is pretty interesting.

 

[FlyingSig]

Matter of fact, I'd trade the Maddog in on a 35 in a heartbeat. Talk about a poor flying airplane. The -80 is a truck. Heavy controls, slow response, slow climb, etc, etc, etc.

I'll take that trade. I've got a 35 with a FC-200 that I'd gladly give up to climb back into my old -88 Maddog.

 

[AviateYou]

Please, stop I feel like I'm sitting in recurrent again!! [/B][/QUOTE]

Thanks Chief! That comes from Geza Szurovy "Learjets" A good read, TRY IT!

 

[WrightAvia]

Believe it or not Sig, we got a guy that just quit a full time fractional gig flying Lears out out of St. Louis, that is trading that job in to come back and fly scheduled freight in Caravans. I don't know why he didn't stick with it another year or two, I'm sure they would have eventually typed him. Homesick maybe? Maybe tired of the Part 91 rules with fractional operations? Maybe the SIC jet time didn't add up? I guess I'll find out from him soon enough.

He quit here about two years ago to go fly jets and I haven't talked to him since he left, nor since he's been back. He is in training now to get back on 135 single turbine flying.

Based on what you read here on the bulletin boards and hear out on the streets, it looks like the perception of job satisfaction can have many facets.


AviateYou, why did you delete your last post?

 

[captjim]

"High Flight"


Oh! I have slipped the surly bonds of earth
And danced the skies on laughter-silvered wings;
Sunward I've climbed, and joined the tumbling mirth
Of sun-split clouds - and done a hundred things
You have not dreamed of - wheeled and soared and swung
High in the sunlit silence. Hov'ring there,
I've chased the shouting wind along, and flung
My eager craft through footless halls of air.

Up, up the long, delirious, burning blue
I've topped the wind-swept heights with easy grace
Where never lark, or even eagle flew -
And, while with silent lifting mind I've trod
The high untrespassed sanctity of space,
Put out my hand and touched the face of God.

 

[captjim]

I was informed about the loss of my friend today. "Jerry" was a classmate, roomate, friend and all round good guy.

To Elgin and the family, you have my deepest condolences and will be in my prayers.

Tailwinds to you Jerry.

 

[LRplt]

Hey Charles Rice,
Congrats on your upgrade to Captain!! Did you just upgrade recently?

 

[CRFLyPutt]

Hey Charles Rice,
Congrats on your upgrade to Captain!! Did you just upgrade recently?

Hey Andy Bergstedt, how are you? Since you know the answer to the above question already lets cut the small talk and ask you about working those soft days with no off day pay. I don't know about you, but in my humble opinion working on your days off with no off day pay can put a guy in a position where at the end of the month there's more going out than the paycheck can bring in especially if you're already living beyond your means, know what I mean?

 

[LRplt]

You hit the nail on the head!

 

[banned username 2]

Hey Andy Bergstedt, how are you? Since you know the answer to the above question already lets cut the small talk and ask you about working those soft days with no off day pay. I don't know about you, but in my humble opinion working on your days off with no off day pay can put a guy in a position where at the end of the month there's more going out than the paycheck can bring in especially if you're already living beyond your means, know what I mean?

LOL... You guys are starting to sound like a bunch of UAL pilots during the summer of 2000...

 

[Citationkid]

That sucks I new those guys. They used to come down to GED every once in a while. Just found out the names and the N# a day or 2 after it.

 

[AviateYou]

Anyone have an update or report?

 

[JJay]

Anyone have an update or report?

http://www.theday.com/eng/web/newstand/re.aspx?reIDx=28747117-98FF-48B2-8591-6BFA63C4E8E4

 

[Badger]

Lrjet @ GON

Went up there this week and had the chance to speak to some folks that had been working the morning of the accident. The general concensus was they shot the straight-in, ended up about 1/2 way down the runway with only the wheels sticking out of the clouds (low ifr, those familiar with GON know about the way those AM clouds behave there). Then the "visual" approach turned into a home-made knife-edge 360 to get back around to land on the straight-in runway @ <100 AGL. Knife-edged the tip tank through the 1st home then cartwheeled... unfortunate but we'll see what the NTSB "experts" say.

Another item I found interesting in the most recent article on the accident...

“I do not see it being pilot error,” said Suzanne Gebel, Hutchinson's sister, who said her brother had been flying for 30 years. “My brother could fly into that airport blindfolded.”

... This brings up a good point, I know this is true where I am. The home airport or one of great familiarity is one where you think you've got it all figured out. Getting back to the circling procedures, especially in a jet, this is not the time to get creative.

We don't live long enough to make all of the mistakes ourselves, learn from others.

 

[AviateYou]

JJay & Badger, thank you...

 

[Timebuilder]

Update

http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/brief.asp?ev_id=20030814X01339&key=1

If you don't see the runway where you expect to see it when you break out, or if you lose your orientation while maneuvering on a visual, then by all means, go missed and get some altitude.

See my new post regarding two guys I know who died on Friday, in sadly similar circumstances.

BE SMART!!!