Lear 45 Captain pay

[Gulfstream 200]

Of course airline guys will undercut... but let's examine why:

"Oh, you're an airline pilot.... sorry we don't hire current or former airline pilots."

"You're not type rated in any bizjet? Sorry, we want typed guys."

What's sad is that VERY, VERY few operators actually look at the person FIRST, then their background/type ratings...

Anyone have an idea on how to dazzle a corporate/charter employer without the prejudged airline stigma?

Sorry, but this info just is not true from what I have seen

Most places I know certainly DO look at the person before the ratings.

The key is to network, have some internal rec's, and a good attitude.

 

[Freight Dog]

Internal rec's do work wonders. What about people without them? What if someone was in the airline career for the past 15-20 years, and now finds himself unemployed because the airline shut down? How does a person like that get hired in today's atmosphere? Believe me, prejudice against airline pilots is huge right now. Take a B-737 or 757 driver right now with 8000 hours and compare him to a 3000 hour Citation pilot. The job is a Hawker pilot. 98/100 times the Citation pilot gets hired hands down. Now that Citation pilot might not be able to fly his way out of a wet paper sack, but he's getting hired because he doesn't have BOEING on his resume. Sadly, this is what I heard from a couple of SoCal-based operators.

 

[Gulfstream 200]

Internal rec's do work wonders. What about people without them? What if someone was in the airline career for the past 15-20 years, and now finds himself unemployed because the airline shut down? How does a person like that get hired in today's atmosphere? Believe me, prejudice against airline pilots is huge right now. Take a B-737 or 757 driver right now with 8000 hours and compare him to a 3000 hour Citation pilot. The job is a Hawker pilot. 98/100 times the Citation pilot gets hired hands down. Now that Citation pilot might not be able to fly his way out of a wet paper sack, but he's getting hired because he doesn't have BOEING on his resume. Sadly, this is what I heard from a couple of SoCal-based operators.

Well, like I said...I think a lot of it is attitude also. No offense but you sound very bitter! - Its not our fault your airline shut down! Be sure to work your resume and your interview skills to show what corp outfits want to see.

Are there places that may hold 121 against you? Im sure - just like there are places that hold military time for/against you, or location, college degree, "stupid little Citation jet time" etc, etc. There a million variables, and airline guys sometimes quickly change their tune about carrying bags, dumping lavs, and flying little citations once furloughed, but cant convince the interviewers. Thats not a stigma, thats weeding out candidates appropriately.

All I'm saying is that many have overcame this "stigma" - dont convince yourself its concrete. 2 of the last 3 people we hired were 121 guys. Yes, they had strong rec's and interviewed with great attitudes.

Good Luck.

 

[Freight Dog]

I fully agree it's about attitude. I'm not bitter, just disappointed. Actually, I've been trying to leave Aloha for 2 years while I was actually employed. I saw the writing on the wall, and even more importantly, I flew 91/135 in a King Air 350 and found that I enjoyed that line of work much better than the airlines.

However, I encountered the same issue - oh, you are currently 121 with no type rating. Well, we don't hire airline guys.

It's good to see you're hiring 121 guys. Not all of us are lazy asses looking for something to pass the furlough.

Like you said, it really comes down to if you know someone and that someone is willing to vouch for you. If you don't know anyone... you are fighting a steep uphill battle.

Am I bitter about it? Not at all, just disappointed... especially because I know I'd exceed all their expectations and then some - not just clients', but also fellow crewmembers' expectations.

Am I bitter about my airline career? I think regretful is more accurate. My regret is not taking a corporate path at the early crossroads in my career. Want to call it bitterness? Well... I'd choose to call it great and positive attitude towards corporate/business aviation with no desire to go back to the airline world.

Great post though!

 

[mxpilot2]

If you're finding an anti-airlines bias, it's usually not without some influence from those who came before you.

I've been chief pilot of a 135 in my past life, and been involved with hiring processes since. I"ve seen airline candidates come through thinking they knew the only way to fly, couldn't believe they would have to monitor fueling and de-icing in blinding snow and freezing cold in upstate NY, and didn't want to think about hauling Mrs. Uppityups steamer trunks from the car and hoist them into the baggage. And it was always a temporary stop- waiting for their recall to the majors. We didn't ask them to resign their number, but if they weren't going to give up airlines, we pretty much knew they were going back if the chance came.

Very few individuals will be honest when they're looking out for number one. Who can blame them? But an employer who's going to lay out thousands in training to see it go out the window at the first better offer or upturn in the economy can't be faulted for their conservative approach either.

Maybe things are different now, with airlines closing down, not just furloughs. I know we would look at someone if we were hiring, but it does play in our minds as we consider candidates.

Good luck in your search.

Regards,
Chris

 

[Shag McNasty]

Like you said, it really comes down to if you know someone and that someone is willing to vouch for you. If you don't know anyone... you are fighting a steep uphill battle.

Am I bitter about it? Not at all, just disappointed... especially because I know I'd exceed all their expectations and then some - not just clients', but also fellow crewmembers' expectations.

That is how the game is played regardless of your background. Keep plugging away and someone will give you a chance to prove you're right.

 

[siouxicide]

Anyone have an idea on how to dazzle a corporate/charter employer without the prejudged airline stigma?

Here's an idea...don't piss on us "lowly" Citation pilots because we could be the ones helping you get a job...then again, maybe you should so this paper sack softens up a little more. I'm having a hell of a time getting out. haha, trust me my panties aren't in a wad. I just couldn't resist. You're perpetuating the stigma, though. I digress...
If XYZ Corp. is unwilling to look at someone because they're ex-121 or lacking a type rating, you probably don't want to work for them anyhow. Instead of leaving the interview disappointed, leave happy. This is rare unless insurance for the airframe/circumstances requires pilots with time in type.
If you're really that serious about getting hired by a -91 outfit:
1. Get known. Stop by the FBO's, ask around. Don't piss on the CSR's or anyone else because they can hook you up with a job as they usually have a good rapport with the pilots and/or owners.
2. Dump the "at the airlines we did it like this" crap. Being inflexible is going to ruffle feathers.
3. Always portray eagerness and a willing attitude.
4. If all else fails, refer to #1. The good ones have a waiting list. Move your name up that list by being known.


Stillflyn, good on you for going in educated. Best of luck.

 

[FastJP4]

FWIW, I was a 121 guy for some time, but always wanted to fly 91. Couldn't get a single response on any resumes sent to 91 ops. Finally took the plunge and went 135 flying Challengers. Going 135 for a while (and getting a couple of types in the process)seemed to remove the airline "stink". Currently flying 91k and would never dream of flying 121 again. Best of luck to ya.