Lear 25D: Pros and cons please

[FlyingPieceOfSt]

I don't know what this "bulletproof CJ-610" talk is about. Maybe I've only flown trash engines on the 24/25s, but all of them were stall susceptible. Push the power up quickly on the ground and the engine farts. Get below .75 at altitude and hit a bump, descend below 240 to re-light one. Then there's the 4 to 6 week spool up time after you introduce fuel on the start. You've also got the stall / surge bleeds that liked to hang up causing a huge bang in the climb on more than one occasion.

The JT12s on the early Sabreliners are much more "bulletproof" as far as I'm concerned. Much better handing airplane to boot. My only complaint about it is the nosewheel steering. Would have been better off with full time limited steer through the pedals and a tiller like larger aircraft.

The early Lears are the kind of airplane you want to have flown for someone else in your past, but not something you want to be flying now.

You have to like the story of a pilot who had only one igniter working between two cj-610's. He found a witch's type broom, dipped it in some Jet-A and had the co-pilot try to start the engine without an igniter...

He lit the broom on fire once the engine started turning over. Once the embers started falling off the broom he placed the broom near the engine inlet. The story says it worked. Must have been a S Florida Air Ambulance Op trying to get home. SCARY!

 

[OPECJet]

You have to like the story of a pilot who had only one igniter working between two cj-610's. He found a witch's type broom, dipped it in some Jet-A and had the co-pilot try to start the engine without an igniter...

He lit the broom on fire once the engine started turning over. Once the embers started falling off the broom he placed the broom near the engine inlet. The story says it worked. Must have been a S Florida Air Ambulance Op trying to get home. SCARY!

Wasn't me, but sounds about right for the South Florida crowd. The guys I worked for on the Lears were straight up and did things as right as they could. The guy who owned the jets was another story....

I might have mislead on my comment about JT12s. I think it's a very good engine for an early straight pipe, hell any turbine for that matter. Pratt did good work when they built them.

 

[con-pilot]

I have flown the Lear 24/25/28 and I would still take a Sabre 40 over any of them. The Sabre 40 is a better flying aircraft, it is faster and it has a better range than the Lear 24/25/28.

Course about everything in the air has more range than a Lear 28, trust me on this.

I still say don't buy a CJ-610 or a P/W JT-12 powered aircraft, there are still a lot of used 731 powered aircraft on the market going very cheaply.

 

[LR25]

Wasnt there only a handful of 28's built? Thought I read about Niel Armstrong breaking records in one years ago.

Saw one about 10 yrs or so ago at SDF.

 

[LJ45]

@ 5-7 28's and @ the same number of 29's (29's had a larger fuselage tank...ie 36)

 

[Quimby]

Wasnt there only a handful of 28's built? Thought I read about Niel Armstrong breaking records in one years ago.

Saw one about 10 yrs or so ago at SDF.

http://records.fai.org/general_aviation/aircraft.asp?id=646

 

[Lynxman]

You have to like the story of a pilot who had only one igniter working between two cj-610's. He found a witch's type broom, dipped it in some Jet-A and had the co-pilot try to start the engine without an igniter...

He lit the broom on fire once the engine started turning over. Once the embers started falling off the broom he placed the broom near the engine inlet. The story says it worked. Must have been a S Florida Air Ambulance Op trying to get home. SCARY!

Please don't tell me this was Airtrek.

 

[FlyingPieceOfSt]

Please don't tell me this was Airtrek.

Funny you asked that Q. No it wasn't, but someone who lurks on here and does not like to participate, called me up and asked if it was Airtrek also.

 

[brokeflyer]

you have to declare "min fuel" on taxi out.

 

[con-pilot]

you have to declare "min fuel" on taxi out.

That would be the Lear 28 for a fact. If I could get an unrestricted climb to 51.0 I would have a maximum of a two hour endurance at .78 Mach and land with VFR reserves. Now try getting an unrestricted climb to 51.0 out of the Washinton D.C. and/or New York area.

 

[NCherches]

You have to fly out of Billings Montana.... In my initial Clearance they said 'Maintain FL450'... never heard that before.

 

[con-pilot]

The only time we could get an unrestricted climb out of the DC area to 51.0 was when we left from Andrews AFB. Base Ops would get that for us, how I've not a clue.

I was not unhappy when they took that aircraft from us.

 

[Dizel8]

How I'd loved to try a 28, I dreamed of that thing the few times I saw it in Laredo. At least I think it was Laredo, it was the one with many colors.

As for the 25, I thought it was pretty heavy in pitch compared to the 24.

Like someone else said, you don't want to own one, you want to fly one and have someone else pay the bills.

If it has to be a Lear, I would certainly go for a 35 as opposed to a 25. However, depending on what the owner needs, a CJ might actually be a better bet. No, not as sexy as a Lear, not as big as a Sabre, but probably a lot more useful, depending on the persons specific need if course!

 

[Deskdriver101]

Rick1128 nailed it. I owned a 25 about 10 year ago. Good lucking getting out of SMO even with stage III hush kits (yes there are a handfull of 25's that were retrofitted w/hush kits) Aircraft was a fuel sucking whore. We routinely did trips out of LAX and taxiing from the north side of the airport to the south side the where the FBO was located it was not uncommon to burn 900- 1000# fuel just taxiing over! MX was a challenge, no lav, blah, blah, blah. Also, the 25 can be an unforgiving aircraft so transitioning from a turboprop may pose a bit of a challenge for your buddy.

There are a number of 35's out there for under $1m. Great range, fan engines, some model even have hard door enclosing the potty. Lear still provides decent. You'll still have to deal with a tiny cockpit and cabin and outdated avionics.

 

[Rick1128]

Also, the 25 can be an unforgiving aircraft so transitioning from a turboprop may pose a bit of a challenge for your buddy.

Deskdriver,

I trained several pilots who had just turboprop time, but no jet time. If they had a significant amount of MU2 or Merlin/Metro time, they had no problems flying the airplane. If you can handle one of the above aircraft, you will have no problem with a Lear. Except you will need to be able to think at, at least 8 miles a minute.

 

[LAZYB]

That would be the Lear 28 for a fact. If I could get an unrestricted climb to 51.0 I would have a maximum of a two hour endurance at .78 Mach and land with VFR reserves. Now try getting an unrestricted climb to 51.0 out of the Washinton D.C. and/or New York area.

How about a LR24E. No fuselage tank.