Latest from ASA/XJT JNC

[ASADriver]

You could have a TA that has slight improvements on the ASA side with slight concessions on the XJT side which would probably pass. The XJT side has burned a lot of bridges with the ASA side and it is really their fault we are in this spot. Frankly, I don't care what they think.

 

[SkyNation]

You could have a TA that has slight improvements on the ASA side with slight concessions on the XJT side which would probably pass. The XJT side has burned a lot of bridges with the ASA side and it is really their fault we are in this spot. Frankly, I don't care what they think.

^^^ding!ding!ding!

and why the HELL would the weakest leak in the Inc. chain deserve or think they won't have to concede ANYTHING?

 

[jetstream]

This airline is stuck in a loop. We don't have the money we need to improve our operational performance and we leave money on the table because our performance is so poor.

 

[pilotnbr1]

Dangling the carrot of more airplanes is no longer the panacea it once was. For the last several years the only way to create movement was more airplanes but soon that will not be the case. Going forward, movement will be created externally by legacy carriers hiring. I could care less if more airplanes come on property... Let the contract stay unchanged.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

This airline is stuck in a loop. We don't have the money we need to improve our operational performance and we leave money on the table because our performance is so poor.

That's correct. We also don't have the brainpower in the G.O., more importantly.

Hire some German efficiency experts to clean house over there.

 

[wms]

^^^ding!ding!ding!

and why the HELL would the weakest leak in the Inc. chain deserve or think they won't have to concede ANYTHING?

Because by shear numbers their vote counts the most. All lasa or sapa can do is whine. Lxjt can make their case with their vote, which I hope brings improvements for all of us, which is more than the lasa mec or sapa boys club want to do.

 

[cybourg10]

LXJT is not the weakest link, that would be LASA with their super senior captains making over $100/hr and super low (soon to be even lower) rates from Delta. You can thank the JoeMerchants for taking too much of the pie while demanding the rest of us need to take concessions. The ASA contract is so skewed towards the top 10% its ridiculous. I've been saying it for years, how about the lifers take huge cuts and the rest of us get a raise, that way everybody wins. The company saves money, I get a raise, and the lifers get a place to work until the next round of bar lowering by Endeavor or GoJets.

 

[Clutch]

LXJT is not the weakest link, that would be LASA with their super senior captains making over $100/hr and super low (soon to be even lower) rates from Delta. You can thank the JoeMerchants for taking too much of the pie while demanding the rest of us need to take concessions. The ASA contract is so skewed towards the top 10% its ridiculous. I've been saying it for years, how about the lifers take huge cuts and the rest of us get a raise, that way everybody wins. The company saves money, I get a raise, and the lifers get a place to work until the next round of bar lowering by Endeavor or GoJets.

I'm on board with that. Unfortunately, it's the lifers who wind up on the MEC

 

[Oakum_Boy]

LXJT is not the weakest link, that would be LASA with their super senior captains making over $100/hr and super low (soon to be even lower) rates from Delta. You can thank the JoeMerchants for taking too much of the pie while demanding the rest of us need to take concessions. The ASA contract is so skewed towards the top 10% its ridiculous.

That's the way it is in every facet of every business.

Do something worthwhile and go to law school. Then find out you do all the work making 75k while the partners collect 750K whist playing golf.

Your mother probably made sure you got lots of participation trophies when you were little. Oh wait, she probably still does.

 

[mtsupilot376]

That's the way it is in every facet of every business.

Do something worthwhile and go to law school. Then find out you do all the work making 75k while the partners collect 750K whist playing golf.

Your mother probably made sure you got lots of participation trophies when you were little. Oh wait, she probably still does.

That's when you hang out at the law firm for a few years making the measly pay whilst collecting the partner's dirty laundry and closet skeletons then turn around and demand 350k/yr in blackmail to keep them out of jail. If they tell you to pound sand, you sell their secrets to the highest paying competitor and make bank.

That's how you get ahead in this country. Welcome to the new norm.

 

[enuffalready]

That's when you hang out at the law firm for a few years making the measly pay whilst collecting the partner's dirty laundry and closet skeletons then turn around and demand 350k/yr in blackmail to keep them out of jail. If they tell you to pound sand, you sell their secrets to the highest paying competitor and make bank.

That's how you get ahead in this country. Welcome to the new norm.

gotta love the victim mentality. That way if you fail you have someone to blame other than yourself. yeah man... its the system... the man is keeping me down. waaaahhhh

go open up your own law firm and you can call yourself senior partner. Then you can sue yourself when you get fired snooping around the senior partners office trying to dig up dirt so you don't have to work or produce anything of value

 

[IFLYASA]

LXJT is not the weakest link, that would be LASA with their super senior captains making over $100/hr and super low (soon to be even lower) rates from Delta. You can thank the JoeMerchants for taking too much of the pie while demanding the rest of us need to take concessions. The ASA contract is so skewed towards the top 10% its ridiculous. I've been saying it for years, how about the lifers take huge cuts and the rest of us get a raise, that way everybody wins. The company saves money, I get a raise, and the lifers get a place to work until the next round of bar lowering by Endeavor or GoJets.

Why would a lifer want a pay cut after years of seniority to get to that point? If you become a lifer you shoot yourself in the foot.

 

[jetstream]

LXJT is not the weakest link, that would be LASA with their super senior captains making over $100/hr and super low (soon to be even lower) rates from Delta. You can thank the JoeMerchants for taking too much of the pie while demanding the rest of us need to take concessions. The ASA contract is so skewed towards the top 10% its ridiculous. I've been saying it for years, how about the lifers take huge cuts and the rest of us get a raise, that way everybody wins. The company saves money, I get a raise, and the lifers get a place to work until the next round of bar lowering by Endeavor or GoJets.

Be careful about criticizing someone until you have walked in their shoes. I'm going on year 14 at ASA and, though I never planned to be, it looks like I'm a lifer. Had what was an almost guaranteed in at DL in the spring of 2001. We all know what happened in the fall of 2001 and that was that. Had a possible chance to go again in 2007 but due to many factors chose not to. Decided I was better off staying where I was and building seniority and QOL than going to the bottom of the list of an airline that was about to go through a merger.

Those pilots in the top 10% you refer to weren't born there. They stuck with it and earned their way there, working for years at much lower wages. They are nearing retirement, the kids are grown and now support themselves. We have no pension plan. The last few years they have at the airline are their best opportunity to earn a good wage while putting a large chunk of it away for retirement.

Obviously, I don't know your background or current situation but I do know that we all have to cover the same ground. Its a journey to a destination and your perspective depends on where you are along that path.

 

[wms]

LXJT is not the weakest link, that would be LASA with their super senior captains making over $100/hr and super low (soon to be even lower) rates from Delta. You can thank the JoeMerchants for taking too much of the pie while demanding the rest of us need to take concessions. The ASA contract is so skewed towards the top 10% its ridiculous. I've been saying it for years, how about the lifers take huge cuts and the rest of us get a raise, that way everybody wins. The company saves money, I get a raise, and the lifers get a place to work until the next round of bar lowering by Endeavor or GoJets.

Why should anyone take a paycut? Just because you want more?

 

[SAABaroowski]

Be careful about criticizing someone until you have walked in their shoes. I'm going on year 14 at ASA and, though I never planned to be, it looks like I'm a lifer. Had what was an almost guaranteed in at DL in the spring of 2001. We all know what happened in the fall of 2001 and that was that. Had a possible chance to go again in 2007 but due to many factors chose not to. Decided I was better off staying where I was and building seniority and QOL than going to the bottom of the list of an airline that was about to go through a merger.

Those pilots in the top 10% you refer to weren't born there. They stuck with it and earned their way there, working for years at much lower wages. They are nearing retirement, the kids are grown and now support themselves. We have no pension plan. The last few years they have at the airline are their best opportunity to earn a good wage while putting a large chunk of it away for retirement.

Obviously, I don't know your background or current situation but I do know that we all have to cover the same ground. Its a journey to a destination and your perspective depends on where you are along that path.

There are more Airlines than just Delta ya know. Even at Spirit, which I know is not on everyone's list has 2nd or 3rd year F/Os making more than you. Hell, a 14 year guy at Spirit just got bumped to $185.00 and hr with a growing airline while you are asked to take another pay cut. Just 10 years ago, SWA wasn't everyone's #1 choice, but look at them the past few years. People laughed at guys that went to US Airways a few years ago, they are the ones laughing now, Continental wasn't all that great, look at them now etc..... Maybe if some of you guys weren't "holding out" for one particular airline you wouldn't be in a position to have to sell everyone else out because you decided to be a lifer?

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Maybe if some of you guys weren't "holding out" for one particular airline you wouldn't be in a position to have to sell everyone else out because you decided to be a lifer?

Maybe you should run that by the $185/hr lifer you're sitting next to this week.

 

[SAABaroowski]

Maybe you should run that by the $185/hr lifer you're sitting next to this week.

He's only 33, hasn't quite been here 15 years

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Then he definitely should GTFO of your seat!

 

[jetstream]

There are more Airlines than just Delta ya know. Even at Spirit, which I know is not on everyone's list has 2nd or 3rd year F/Os making more than you. Hell, a 14 year guy at Spirit just got bumped to $185.00 and hr with a growing airline while you are asked to take another pay cut. Just 10 years ago, SWA wasn't everyone's #1 choice, but look at them the past few years. People laughed at guys that went to US Airways a few years ago, they are the ones laughing now, Continental wasn't all that great, look at them now etc..... Maybe if some of you guys weren't "holding out" for one particular airline you wouldn't be in a position to have to sell everyone else out because you decided to be a lifer?

I'm well aware of that. DL was just the example I chose. Can't fit a 14 year career and all that has happened into a few paragraphs.

The point was that, due to a plethora of reasons, many pilots who never planned on being a lifer at a regional find themselves in that position. Like I said, don't judge someone until you've walked in their shoes for a while. You make your career and lifestyle decisions and we'll make ours.

Sometimes it's better to be a big fish in a small pond than a small fish in a huge lake.

 

[79%N1]

I'm well aware of that. DL was just the example I chose. Can't fit a 14 year career and all that has happened into a few paragraphs.

The point was that, due to a plethora of reasons, many pilots who never planned on being a lifer at a regional find themselves in that position. Like I said, don't judge someone until you've walked in their shoes for a while. You make your career and lifestyle decisions and we'll make ours.

Sometimes it's better to be a big fish in a small pond than a small fish in a huge lake.

Like age 65 stopping hiring for 5 yars locking yu in, 9/11 causing years of massive Legacy furloughs, and the economic melt down of 2007 that caused many bankruptcies? Oh yeah, and the 3 huge mergers??? Like that?

 

[SAABaroowski]

I'm well aware of that. DL was just the example I chose. Can't fit a 14 year career and all that has happened into a few paragraphs.

The point was that, due to a plethora of reasons, many pilots who never planned on being a lifer at a regional find themselves in that position. Like I said, don't judge someone until you've walked in their shoes for a while. You make your career and lifestyle decisions and we'll make ours.

Sometimes it's better to be a big fish in a small pond than a small fish in a huge lake.

I hear you, I didn't mean to single you out per say. I'm more talking about the guys who passed up some great opportunities because they were waiting for "the one"

 

[Clutch]

It's "per se". That goes for all you morons.

 

[cybourg10]

I don't think any of us need to take a pay cut, whether you are a 20 yr captain or a 2nd year FO we are all underpaid. My point was that some ASA guys have been saying (for the past 3 years) that we at XJT are too expensive and need to be more competitive. I think that is funny coming from one of the most senior groups in the industry and if you want to "help" the company than send some of your pay back to them. I just came up with a Michael Scott win win win formula for it, funny how some of ya'll react to it though.

 

[701EV]

There are more Airlines than just Delta ya know. Even at Spirit, which I know is not on everyone's list has 2nd or 3rd year F/Os making more than you. Hell, a 14 year guy at Spirit just got bumped to $185.00 and hr with a growing airline while you are asked to take another pay cut.?

SAAB, come on brother lets be honest. I just looked at Spirit's pay scale. Their's not an FO pay rate that pays more than a 15 year Captain at ASA.

 

[knightflyer]

then he definitely should gtfo of your seat!

rotflmao!!!

 

[Nevets]

You could have a TA that has slight improvements on the ASA side with slight concessions on the XJT side which would probably pass. The XJT side has burned a lot of bridges with the ASA side and it is really their fault we are in this spot. Frankly, I don't care what they think.

If we have a TA like that to vote on, I'll blame the XJT MEC. With that said, it was the ASA side who wouldn't compromise on PBS. Their fault we are at the same point we would've been but a year later. In the end, it doesn't matter. Management would've asked for concessions anyway.

 

[JumpersAway]

Clutch- I think I spoke with your avatar in OCC, just this last trip. Probably a lifer too.

 

[SAABaroowski]

SAAB, come on brother lets be honest. I just looked at Spirit's pay scale. Their's not an FO pay rate that pays more than a 15 year Captain at ASA.

Pay rate has little to do with W2. A perfect example was my 134 hrs of credit last month, all while blocking 34 hrs and being home 19 days of the month . The contract is that good, so yes the "pay rate" might not be up there, the W2 is.

Also the pay rates changed August 1st, 2nd year is now $72 (not great I know) but 401k company match goes to 10%. Similiar to the XJT contract, great work rules yield higher W2s than just pay rates

 

[Mako1985]

Where are these LGA and MSP rumors stemming from, side from rest regs

 

[zawillif]

Where are these LGA and MSP rumors stemming from, side from rest regs

I ran into one of our 700 crews in LGA last week. Their first leg was a deadhead from ATL-LGA, their last leg was a deadhead from LGA-ATL. They said on their first deadhead there was 3 other ASA crews deadheading. That was a total of 16 ASA crew members on one flight. Not too sure about MSP, but that doesn't sound very efficient for Delta or us.