What are your goals?
There is much debate about what it is like for one of these 747 operators and the really important point is to sit down with your wife for those of you that are married and really ponder some of the following questions. For those of you that are single, I'll address that towards the end.
You all need to go over the following questions/situations and see if it is something that will be tolerable/acceptable given your individual circumstances.
Going to EV.......will you and your wife be ok with:
1. Will she be ok with you being gone for 18 days straight month after month? Could she (you) deal with possibly (because of you being junior) getting stuck with a line at the back end of one month and then getting awarded a line at the front end of the next month making your total time away from home 1 solid straight month, followed by 2 weeks off, then back out on the road? (this isnt the norm, but is possible)
2. Will she be ok with sometimes only talking to you for a couple of minutes a day because of time zone differences of 12-15 hours? Will she be ok with not being able to call you whenever she wants to while you are out on the road, and be more dependant on you calling her because of your need to rest.
(ie: Hong Kong is 12 ahead of ET, when you are getting up for b-fast she is getting ready for bed, come in off a trip or plan rest before a trip and you will not want to be disturbed so that you can rest, so she will just have to deal with waiting for you to get to the next destination and then depending on where that is, you may end up waiting for her to wake up while you stay awake or maybe not.....regardless it ends up being 24-36 hours before you can talk again.) Would she (you) be ok with this month after month?
3. If something should happen (emergency) would she be ok dealing with it for a minimum of a day and a half because, face it, if you are on the other side of the world and you need to get home asap, its not like there is an hourly commuter service to get you home in 2 hours. what about if you get sick? Go home? yeah right! stay there and get better, and then call scheduling when you are better to resume flying.
4. Do you like flying at the back end of the clock? Would you mind a report time downstairs in Anchorage at 1200am and then a 9 hour flight to Korea or 10.5 hr flight to Hong Kong with an arrival at 630am or 830am local after being up all night? do you think your 8hrs flying in a 16hr duty day is a long time?.......how does 12hours of flying with no duty limit sound to you? Now evergreen has a union contract that limits duty time to 18 hours, how does going right to that sound to you?
ie: show time @JFK: 1930L, ETD 2130L.....ETA CHS: 2300.....ETD CHS: 0300L.....ETA EGPK(prestwick scotland) 1530L. total flying time: 8.5(projected)
total duty time: 15hrs. If your too heavy, you may not be able to make EGPK nonstop, so add in a stop in Gander enroute. Your day just got longer. There are lines that are augmented, say Prestwick to kabul, stopover and then takeoff for Hong Kong. One crew flys to kabul while the other rests in the back, then switch in Kabul. Total duty time from hotel check out to hotel check in at other end 22+ hours straight. Remember you must be sharp and ready for a mins app at the end of the trip.
If you think transcons are long and tedious, then how would you feel about a trip that is 10-12hrs long that sees a afternoon departure, then sunset, followed by sunrise and then landing? min rest and then repeat?
Now I dont want to sound like a pessimist or imply that this kind of flying is not rewarding. I have just seen people come from RJ's or non transcon planes sick of their situation and then get into this without any real idea of what they are getting into. I would advise getting the most info you can about long haul flying and how that will impact you, your wife, your family. Make no mistake, if any of the above questions gave you or your wife concern, then I would advise against going long haul. Too many people talk about irrelevant things and not on the intangibles about how this will affect you and others.
For me EV was one hell of an experience. The best part about it was the consumate professionals that Ii flew with. That is the only true source of strength that EV has....their people. They are the greatest bunch of guys/gals that would could ask to circumvent the globe with. That is pretty much where it ends. Here are my objective points about EV as I saw them.
1. It is owned by one man, Dell Smith. I don't care how many DOD contracts he has if Boeing gives him any future airplane part flying for 100 hundred years, etc etc etc.....he cares about only one thing....his musuem and his legacy. He is 77-78.....he takes pride in showing his people that he is willing to lose a dollar to save a penny. There are 2 camps at EV, one says he will liquidate the airline when he dies and have all proceeds go to his legacy, the other thinks EV will be bought by a bigger cargo carrier because of their contracts with the DOD, commercial and Boeing. Point is, everyone at EV is betting their careers on the heartbeat of a man that couldnt give two ********************s about you.
2. Management there is as you would find it elsewhere. There are some really good people there that do their best to look out after the line troops. There are those that just do whatever they have to do to keep their jobs and in the good graces of the owner, and if that means screwing your people, then so be it....business is business. There are departments there that will fight with another just to make their department look good to the owner (coming in under their budget, even if it means screwing over another) and then people in the middle of this are the crews. Bottom line, the company culture comes from the very top....and if the owner doesnt give two ********************s about you, what do you think mngmnt will do when push comes to shove?
3. DOD flying. EV just started flying to afghanistan without addressing any of the concerns of the crews. Do they care that life ins. policies have war zone exclusions? no. what about contingencies if something should happen?..nothing will happen.
how about extra pay?....you are already over paid and we still want concessions. can i refuse a trip?....do so and you will be fired.
There was a newhire class last January that was furloughed on the last day of GS. Why? because some beancounter told the owner that there was overtime being paid out during a slow time and we are heavy on crews. So the order was given "can them"...that was only rescinded when reason prevailed and a VP showed the owner how they were not top heavy and you always have OT every month due to many reasons. ....the damage was already done...good people didnt come back.
4. They just upgraded one person out of seniority, and they will tell you that he is going to fly the fire bomber and stay out of the airline even though he displaced others in line...why?.....because the owner can do whatever he wants...contract or no contract.
I could go on, but I believe that I have said enough....anyone that wants to go there needs to be highly aware that you are just a number and your duration there depends on the mood of the owner and only HE knows what will happen when he passes.
Flying the B747 around the world was an incredible privelage! Working alongside the people there was equally flattering. That is what i walked away with.
i went there with the hope that things were truly changing and to get international experience on the B747. In the case that EV didnt change, then my bet was hedged in that i walked away with experience. EV is a stepping stone guys, dont kid yourselves, you just have to be real about the price your willing to pay (home time) to be there.
Now if you are single and just want to fly and see the world. Man this or any other B747 operator is the place for you! Just beware, that there is a trap here......if after being there for years and now in the left seat and you do want a family, she had better be ok with it because giving up the left seat of a b747 and the pay after years of scratching is a bitter pill to swallow.
Now there are plenty of guys that have a family and they are fine. The majority of the people at EV are ex military and 2 weeks on 2 weeks off is a walk in the park for them compared to deployments they were used to.
To summarize guys......be very careful for what you wish for, because you might very well get it. If you are sick of RJ flying and commuting.....going to the other extreme is not the answer and you pay a different price. If your goal is SWA or JETBLUE or any major, it really doesnt make sense to leave for EV.
But again, if long haul flying is your thing, you and yours are ok with the time apart, then it is one of the most rewarding things that you can do and you will see the world from a perspective that only a few can...........
if this fits your long term goals and is acceptable to the family.....then welcome to the B 747.....you will be in awe of what it can do with some of the greatest professionals at Evergreen Airlines behind the controls!
There is much debate about what it is like for one of these 747 operators and the really important point is to sit down with your wife for those of you that are married and really ponder some of the following questions. For those of you that are single, I'll address that towards the end.
You all need to go over the following questions/situations and see if it is something that will be tolerable/acceptable given your individual circumstances.
Going to EV.......will you and your wife be ok with:
1. Will she be ok with you being gone for 18 days straight month after month? Could she (you) deal with possibly (because of you being junior) getting stuck with a line at the back end of one month and then getting awarded a line at the front end of the next month making your total time away from home 1 solid straight month, followed by 2 weeks off, then back out on the road? (this isnt the norm, but is possible)
2. Will she be ok with sometimes only talking to you for a couple of minutes a day because of time zone differences of 12-15 hours? Will she be ok with not being able to call you whenever she wants to while you are out on the road, and be more dependant on you calling her because of your need to rest.
(ie: Hong Kong is 12 ahead of ET, when you are getting up for b-fast she is getting ready for bed, come in off a trip or plan rest before a trip and you will not want to be disturbed so that you can rest, so she will just have to deal with waiting for you to get to the next destination and then depending on where that is, you may end up waiting for her to wake up while you stay awake or maybe not.....regardless it ends up being 24-36 hours before you can talk again.) Would she (you) be ok with this month after month?
3. If something should happen (emergency) would she be ok dealing with it for a minimum of a day and a half because, face it, if you are on the other side of the world and you need to get home asap, its not like there is an hourly commuter service to get you home in 2 hours. what about if you get sick? Go home? yeah right! stay there and get better, and then call scheduling when you are better to resume flying.
4. Do you like flying at the back end of the clock? Would you mind a report time downstairs in Anchorage at 1200am and then a 9 hour flight to Korea or 10.5 hr flight to Hong Kong with an arrival at 630am or 830am local after being up all night? do you think your 8hrs flying in a 16hr duty day is a long time?.......how does 12hours of flying with no duty limit sound to you? Now evergreen has a union contract that limits duty time to 18 hours, how does going right to that sound to you?
ie: show time @JFK: 1930L, ETD 2130L.....ETA CHS: 2300.....ETD CHS: 0300L.....ETA EGPK(prestwick scotland) 1530L. total flying time: 8.5(projected)
total duty time: 15hrs. If your too heavy, you may not be able to make EGPK nonstop, so add in a stop in Gander enroute. Your day just got longer. There are lines that are augmented, say Prestwick to kabul, stopover and then takeoff for Hong Kong. One crew flys to kabul while the other rests in the back, then switch in Kabul. Total duty time from hotel check out to hotel check in at other end 22+ hours straight. Remember you must be sharp and ready for a mins app at the end of the trip.
If you think transcons are long and tedious, then how would you feel about a trip that is 10-12hrs long that sees a afternoon departure, then sunset, followed by sunrise and then landing? min rest and then repeat?
Now I dont want to sound like a pessimist or imply that this kind of flying is not rewarding. I have just seen people come from RJ's or non transcon planes sick of their situation and then get into this without any real idea of what they are getting into. I would advise getting the most info you can about long haul flying and how that will impact you, your wife, your family. Make no mistake, if any of the above questions gave you or your wife concern, then I would advise against going long haul. Too many people talk about irrelevant things and not on the intangibles about how this will affect you and others.
For me EV was one hell of an experience. The best part about it was the consumate professionals that Ii flew with. That is the only true source of strength that EV has....their people. They are the greatest bunch of guys/gals that would could ask to circumvent the globe with. That is pretty much where it ends. Here are my objective points about EV as I saw them.
1. It is owned by one man, Dell Smith. I don't care how many DOD contracts he has if Boeing gives him any future airplane part flying for 100 hundred years, etc etc etc.....he cares about only one thing....his musuem and his legacy. He is 77-78.....he takes pride in showing his people that he is willing to lose a dollar to save a penny. There are 2 camps at EV, one says he will liquidate the airline when he dies and have all proceeds go to his legacy, the other thinks EV will be bought by a bigger cargo carrier because of their contracts with the DOD, commercial and Boeing. Point is, everyone at EV is betting their careers on the heartbeat of a man that couldnt give two ********************s about you.
2. Management there is as you would find it elsewhere. There are some really good people there that do their best to look out after the line troops. There are those that just do whatever they have to do to keep their jobs and in the good graces of the owner, and if that means screwing your people, then so be it....business is business. There are departments there that will fight with another just to make their department look good to the owner (coming in under their budget, even if it means screwing over another) and then people in the middle of this are the crews. Bottom line, the company culture comes from the very top....and if the owner doesnt give two ********************s about you, what do you think mngmnt will do when push comes to shove?
3. DOD flying. EV just started flying to afghanistan without addressing any of the concerns of the crews. Do they care that life ins. policies have war zone exclusions? no. what about contingencies if something should happen?..nothing will happen.
how about extra pay?....you are already over paid and we still want concessions. can i refuse a trip?....do so and you will be fired.
There was a newhire class last January that was furloughed on the last day of GS. Why? because some beancounter told the owner that there was overtime being paid out during a slow time and we are heavy on crews. So the order was given "can them"...that was only rescinded when reason prevailed and a VP showed the owner how they were not top heavy and you always have OT every month due to many reasons. ....the damage was already done...good people didnt come back.
4. They just upgraded one person out of seniority, and they will tell you that he is going to fly the fire bomber and stay out of the airline even though he displaced others in line...why?.....because the owner can do whatever he wants...contract or no contract.
I could go on, but I believe that I have said enough....anyone that wants to go there needs to be highly aware that you are just a number and your duration there depends on the mood of the owner and only HE knows what will happen when he passes.
Flying the B747 around the world was an incredible privelage! Working alongside the people there was equally flattering. That is what i walked away with.
i went there with the hope that things were truly changing and to get international experience on the B747. In the case that EV didnt change, then my bet was hedged in that i walked away with experience. EV is a stepping stone guys, dont kid yourselves, you just have to be real about the price your willing to pay (home time) to be there.
Now if you are single and just want to fly and see the world. Man this or any other B747 operator is the place for you! Just beware, that there is a trap here......if after being there for years and now in the left seat and you do want a family, she had better be ok with it because giving up the left seat of a b747 and the pay after years of scratching is a bitter pill to swallow.
Now there are plenty of guys that have a family and they are fine. The majority of the people at EV are ex military and 2 weeks on 2 weeks off is a walk in the park for them compared to deployments they were used to.
To summarize guys......be very careful for what you wish for, because you might very well get it. If you are sick of RJ flying and commuting.....going to the other extreme is not the answer and you pay a different price. If your goal is SWA or JETBLUE or any major, it really doesnt make sense to leave for EV.
But again, if long haul flying is your thing, you and yours are ok with the time apart, then it is one of the most rewarding things that you can do and you will see the world from a perspective that only a few can...........
if this fits your long term goals and is acceptable to the family.....then welcome to the B 747.....you will be in awe of what it can do with some of the greatest professionals at Evergreen Airlines behind the controls!
Last edited:
