Latest ASA offer

[PCL_128]

semantics AGAIN! I don't care what you choose to call it....ASA made an offer/supposal/proposal/what if/who dun'it/whatever....

Actually, NO, it is not just symantics. "Supposal" and "proposal" mean two entirely different things in legal circles (including the NMB). The fact that you don't understand that is a perfect demonstration of why you need to trust your CNC and MEC instead of attacking them and making crazy demands of them based on emotion rather than reasoning.

please tell me you are smart enough/reasonable enough/have common sense enough to realize ....had our CNC agreed to the terms being presented as a "what if?" scenario, ASA would have called the NMB and asked for a meeting and they would have offered it "officially" on the record.

No, I don't believe that's what would have transpired. If the CNC had shown willingness to accept the "supposal," I believe the management negotiators would have pulled the supposal from the table and come back with something slightly less appealing. That's what makes a supposal different from a bonified proposal: you can't pull a proposal from the table under Section 6 negotiations after it's already been made. If you do, then the NMB will view it as extremely bad faith negotiating practices. They would almost certainly be willing to extend a proffer of arbitration at that point. With a supposal, the company doesn't have to worry about that. They can submit and retract supposals at a whim without the NMB even knowing, let along caring, about it. Once a full proposal is made, the company is basically bound by it. If the CNC accepts it, then that's it. It goes to the MEC for a vote and then out to memrat. Not so with a supposal. They can, and it appears that the did, pull the offer right off the table. If this truly was a legitimate offer as you seem to think, then why would management pull it from the table so quickly? If this is legitimate and they really want a deal, then why not leave it on the table to allow the MEC and CNC to further consider it? Use your head. None of this makes any sense. It's all just posturing on the part of the company. Trust your MEC and CNC, and stop micromanaging them.

 

[~~~^~~~]

If this truly was a legitimate offer as you seem to think, then why would management pull it from the table so quickly?

It didn't come off the table, it apparently showed up on the table at SkyWest. It is classic whipsaw. You don't want it, OK, lets see if they want it. SkyWest holdings is growing and fishing for the best deal they can get. Come here, fishy fishy fishy...

 

[atrdriver]

I also applaud our CNC for their work.

How is it that time is on the side of the pilots? What am I missing?

The company is obviously under some amount of pressure to get us a contract. They are wanting to bid on other flying, etc, and that is hard to do when you don't fully know what your costs are. I would imagine that JA is also putting pressure on BL to get this done. While we don't like it, we can go on working under our current PWA without much problem, which makes a lot more sense than agreeing to a substandard agreement just to "get it done."

 

[atrdriver]

It didn't come off the table, it apparently showed up on the table at SkyWest. It is classic whipsaw. You don't want it, OK, lets see if they want it. SkyWest holdings is growing and fishing for the best deal they can get. Come here, fishy fishy fishy...

What has been offered to Skywest was never offered to us. The company has not yet "offered" a 2% across the board raise, a 4:10 min day, COLA increases, etc.

 

[HoserASA]

I'm also sure that if you choose to be a P2P rep., you should relay the facts and not your twisted version of the "facts". If you don't have the facts as stated by the CNC guy's, you should get them. We should be getting unbiased, correct information FROM you not GIVING it TO you.

OhPlease, I have no twisted version of the facts. I emailed the MEC & Neg Comm Chair as I had not received any info about this offer, supposal, whatever you want to call it. John Rice will brief this tomorrow at the LEC meeting, so you'll have your opportunity to ask him there, your face to his face, and all the others face to face. Think you can handle that?

I was told the offer, proposal, supposal etc was inadequate, did not address our issues, had minimal increase for the CR2/ATR, and no cola for the CR7. Rigs were neutered to point of being useless. The company is trying to tie all these issues to PBS, which pilot polling indicates no one wants in lieu of our current method of bidding.

As for the SKYW offer, it may or may not be real. The MEC has not verified it's authentic as the document is not on any official letterhead with signatures. The MEC says if true, it is greater compensation than anything presented informally by the company, and scheduling issues include items already agreed to in our Section 13.

So, call me names all you want but I honestly was not informed of this so-called unofficial supposal. Please question the Neg Comm Chair tomorrow if you attend the meeting. P2Ps don't always get all the info out there, which has been a sore spot with me for the 9+ years I've been on the P2P Comm.

Hoser
P2P

 

[Bizjet]

This appears to be true.

The company made a proposal - a proposal that answered most of ALPA's objections. While we hear lots about the Preferential Bidding, we have heard nearly nothing from our CNC.

I can say what we are not hearing is that our negotiating committee is still railing about a funded retirement plan. This is certainly on Doug Parrott's agenda. In my opinion scope should be a higher (and more realistic) priority.

I think the Company's offer should be recognized for what it is. A pretty good offer.

In the mean time more and more of "ASA's" flying is being transferred and Skywest is talking to Delta about changing the names on the asset purchase agreement. After all, ASA's deal to do 85% of the Atlanta DCi flying can be changed almost instantly to read "SkyWest."

What are we waiting for - an Atlanta SkyWest base? We know it's coming.

I can't believe you have read this thread and learned absolutely nothing. Don't panic now there aren't even any bullets flying. First take a deep breath and DON'T PANIC. Use some of your RJDC Stubborness and take it to the company and not in your shorts. READ MY LIPS-THERE WAS NO PROPOSAL. If you guys start down that road why should the MEC or CNC even try to find common ground during these informal meetings if you are going to act like CAVE MEN. Personally I hope they never meet informally again. ASA Management is using it as a tool against the MEC and you are allowing it to happen. Grow up and ignore this if you are not ready to give up to management. Management want you to demand to vote on something to gage the results. You are jumping in the quick sand after you read the sign that says DANGER QUICK SAND! GEEEZZZZ!!!!!:angryfire

 

[Bizjet]

Lately the union has done a poor job of keeping us informed about what is going on so a good rumor beats nothing. If a supposal/proposal was made, I shouldn't have to read about it on fltinfo.com. The union should have sent the details for us to review.

The invite for free/dues paid meal is nice but can't make it and shouldn't have to for negotiations updates.

Fly Safe...

There is plenty of information out there if you want to show some initative and GET IT. Babies are spoon fed and then they are weaned. It is time for you to get off the teat!

 

[HoserASA]

Well said ohplease. I'm tired of being lied to by the people I am paying to look out for my best interests. I'm not the only one ALPA - quit lying to us.

Just so you understand, you are not paying me anything to be a volunteer. I don't receive anything, no pay, additional time off, nothin, whatever, as a volunteer. And I am not lying to anyone. Read the previous response to ohplease. I would suggest if you can attend, show for tomorrow's LEC meeting and ask your questions there. The MEC will be there, the Neg Comm Chair (JohnRice) will be there, and the negotiating members you say told you all this will be too so you can confirm with them what they actually said to you, all face to face.

Hoser
P2P

 

[Bizjet]

I also applaud our CNC for their work.

How is it that time is on the side of the pilots? What am I missing?

The company is officially still asking for concessions. Yes the company that started with:

We want you to be the highest paid pilots in the regional industry, then

We Want you to be among the highest paid pilots in the regional industry, then

You must accept a Zero net gain contract,
then

What ever you want to call concessions is what they have been proposing and claiming they have never asked for concessions!

So when do you want to take pay cuts? It appears the sooner the better. Some people just want to know what to expect even if it is bad. If you were in the business world and your boss said he was going to cut your pay but never did would you call him ever day to remind him. You want a quality contract--stay the course. If you want to take cuts just to know the future then ask the CNC to include a question along the lines of would you take a concessionary contract in order to quickly know the outcome of this contract?
Do you think ASA/Skywest will be announcing more or less profits in the future? Who can more easily wait for these negotiations to conclude? The ASA pilots or ASA/SkyWest management? If we vote for a quality contract JA is going to dump his pants. If we cave he will come after his own pilots with our substandard contract. The SkyWest pilots have very little if any job protection against JA doing anything he wants. Let's show them the years of abuse at the hands of ASA management will not be sanctioned by our pilots ever again. Management fear is a much better for us than their respect for us when we finish this contract. Think about it. You will say something really rude on occasion when a friend catches you at a bad time. If the guy was 6'8" and weighed 300 lbs. and didn't like you would you think before opening your mouth to him! If you want to continue to panic put your name on a list and place it on one of the many B.B.'s in the crew lounge. Ask others to join you and then management will give you time off to continue to post this kind of drivel on the site here with PAY. Come on ladies THINK before typing!uke:

 

[ASACAPT]

ASA LEC Meeting Friday

To all of you monday morning quarterbacks, why dont you all show up at the LEC meeting in ATL tmrw at the Doubbletree hotel by the airport at 10am. You will all have the oppertunity to hear the truth from the horses mouth, instead of reading it here.