Landing with a gear problem.

Hugh Johnson

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This came up in a BS session before a flight. If you have one main and the nose locked, do you land like that or do you pull all the gears up and belly it in? My training has been land on the good main and nose, keep the opposite wing off as long as possible, maintain certerline with rudder and tiller. Had about a 50/50 split, with the guys who wanted to pull gear up and belly in. Cheers.
 

Tarzan

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Belly it in. Screw up a little and catch a wingtip and tumble down the runway? No thanks.
 

ePilot22

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The possibilities.....

Hugh Johnson said:
If you have one main and the nose locked, do you land like that or do you pull all the gears up and belly it in? My training has been land on the good main and nose, keep the opposite wing off as long as possible, maintain certerline with rudder and tiller.

The question is to broad. To many variables that are unknown. Skill level and time of the pilot, type of aircraft, wing and engine location, number of engines, pistion or jet, condition of runway, i.e soft, short, paved. Wind and weather conditions, etc.

However I think if I were to land with the gear down, I would land off centerline to the side that had the main wheel down. Less chance of going off the runway.
 

nosehair

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ePilot22 said:
The question is to broad. To many variables that are unknown. Skill level and time of the pilot, type of aircraft, wing and engine location, number of engines, pistion or jet, condition of runway, i.e soft, short, paved. Wind and weather conditions, etc.

Doesn't matter. Belly in. On the grass if you can. Pull the mixtures on short final as soon as you are sure you have the runway made and are not going to overshoot. Bump the props parallel to the runway, switches and fuel off, and slide it on. Little or no damage to the belly.

Try it with one or two down, and yeah, maybe all those variables come into play, but still the damage is worse over-all regardless of skill and conditions.
 

Lead Sled

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nosehair said:
Doesn't matter. Belly in. On the grass if you can.
Not necessarily the smart thing to do. I agree with those who want more info.

'Sled
 

SPBRIAN

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nosehair said:


Doesn't matter. Belly in. On the grass if you can. Pull the mixtures on short final as soon as you are sure you have the runway made and are not going to overshoot. Bump the props parallel to the runway, switches and fuel off, and slide it on. Little or no damage to the belly.

Try it with one or two down, and yeah, maybe all those variables come into play, but still the damage is worse over-all regardless of skill and conditions.


I love these remarks, going to have to pull up a lawnchair and watch the fun you all will have with this. I seem to recall a few threads on this exact topic. My penny worth of knowledge, why create a bigger emergency by comitting yourself with absolutely no options, plus the ammount of time it takes to bump the props to horizontal could require pulling the mixtures at TPA. Silly Silly. Would you tell a brand new student with 50 hours to do this? My penny worth of thought on it.

-Brian
 

hydroflyer

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I guess you might want to start with using the checklist. The plane will be damaged no matter how you do it, which means you will want the insurance company to cover it. I'll bet the insurance company will try not to pay if you do something other than what the checklist says. Most checklists that I have seen say to leave the gear as is, land on a hard surface runway, towards the side of the extended gear and hold the wing off as long as possible. Metal slides well on a hard surface and will dissipate the energy slower. I can't say I've seen a perfectly smooth grass strip, and it would be real easy for a wingtip to catch a divit or rut and spin the airplane around far worse than on pavement. Besides, not too many grassy areas have crash and fire rescue to stand by.
 

bafanguy

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Land on all available gear. Why would the airplane type/configuration make a difference ? If you're in a twin prop, why would you chose to bang up both props and engines and have belly damage when you might be able to get by with damage to one prop/engine and a wingtip.

Same for wing-mounted turbojet engines. Definitely the case with aft-fuselage-mounted turbojet engines.

Maybe I've overlooked something in this discussion ?
 

Fury220

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bafanguy said:
Definitely the case with aft-fuselage-mounted turbojet engines.

Maybe I've overlooked something in this discussion ?

Nope. Not for me, at least.

Here's what my checklist says:

Both main gear up Nose up: LAND
Both main gear down Nose up: LAND
Both main gear up Nose down: EJECT
Only one main gear down Nose up OR down: EJECT

(Of course, if you have a "must eject" condition, try to at least achieve a landable configuration before electing for a controlled bailout... i.e.: with only one main and the nose gear down, try to pull them all up and then belly it in.)


I agree with my guidance. I don't want to cartwheel at 150KIAS. No thank you. To hell with the aircraft/paint job...I'm going to belly it in with full flaps and speedbrakes extended.
 

KigAir

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Make low passes down the runway while your buddy riding in the back of a truck tries to extend the gear manually. Repeat until successful or you run out of fuel.
 

pilotmiketx

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nosehair said:


Doesn't matter. Belly in. On the grass if you can. Pull the mixtures on short final as soon as you are sure you have the runway made and are not going to overshoot. Bump the props parallel to the runway, switches and fuel off, and slide it on. Little or no damage to the belly.

Try it with one or two down, and yeah, maybe all those variables come into play, but still the damage is worse over-all regardless of skill and conditions.

Obviously an unqualified, uneducated guess.

Other than water, grass is probably the worst surface for a gear up landing. The soil gets in every seam and creates a tremendous force, which shears rivets, peels back sheet metal skins and bends bulkheads, not to mention what it does to wing attach fittings when you catch a wing tip. The smoother and harder the surface, the less damage will be done.
 

nosehair

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pilotmiketx said:
Other than water, grass is probably the worst surface for a gear up landing. The soil gets in every seam and creates a tremendous force, which shears rivets, peels back sheet metal skins and bends bulkheads, not to mention what it does to wing attach fittings when you catch a wing tip. The smoother and harder the surface, the less damage will be done.

Yep, you are right, my man. I had totally forgotten about that. I've seen it, but forgotten about it.
 

bafanguy

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Fury220 said:
Nope. Not for me, at least.

Here's what my checklist says:

Both main gear up Nose up: LAND
Both main gear down Nose up: LAND
Both main gear up Nose down: EJECT
Only one main gear down Nose up OR down: EJECT

(Of course, if you have a "must eject" condition, try to at least achieve a landable configuration before electing for a controlled bailout... i.e.: with only one main and the nose gear down, try to pull them all up and then belly it in.)


I agree with my guidance. I don't want to cartwheel at 150KIAS. No thank you. To hell with the aircraft/paint job...I'm going to belly it in with full flaps and speedbrakes extended.

Not everyone has the "eject" option. I've not flown an air carrier airplane where belly landing was recommended unless, of course, none of the gear came down.

The only case of this that comes to mind ( and I can't swear to all the details ) was a 727 in MIA some years ago. None of the gear would come down. The crew made a textbook belly landing with congrats to all concerned until it was discovered that there was no gear crank onboard in the airplane. This prevented any attempt to manually lower the gear.

ooops....those preflights are tricky...
 
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NoPax

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Flying a Twin Commander - Gear up, belly in. The props/engines won't touch the surface, the fuel is in between the engines, so no tipping over/fire hazard, nice flat bottom, just watch yourself getting out, might strain a hamstring.
 

421Driver

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Land with what you have. In most civilian airplanes, you have a substantial amount of control authority to hold the wing with the affected landing gear off the runway.

I actually had something like this happen to me. Was in a C172RG, and upon return to the home airport, the right main did not extend. I was giving instruction at the time, so we followed the checklist, did a fly by to check the nose (C172 has only one light for gear down), and flew around for a while thinking about our options. Other people have used the truck idea, but I had my student fly, opened the door (with my seatbelt securely fastned), and reached down to grab the landing gear and yank it down. A month later some clown lands with the gear up. so much for saving the airplane...
 

Fury220

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bafanguy said:
Not everyone has the "eject" option. I've not flown an air carrier airplane where belly landing was recommended unless, of course, none of the gear came down.

I hear ya on that. I consider the "EJECT" option a last ditch option. If I can, in any way, achieve a "landable configuration," I'm happy with a belly-in.

Of course, there are different considerations for different types of aircraft.
 
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