Landing with a gear problem.

[Hugh Johnson]

This came up in a BS session before a flight. If you have one main and the nose locked, do you land like that or do you pull all the gears up and belly it in? My training has been land on the good main and nose, keep the opposite wing off as long as possible, maintain certerline with rudder and tiller. Had about a 50/50 split, with the guys who wanted to pull gear up and belly in. Cheers.

 

[Metro752]

are the engines on the wings, or on the tail, or up front on the nose?

 

[Tarzan]

Belly it in. Screw up a little and catch a wingtip and tumble down the runway? No thanks.

 

[ePilot22]

The possibilities.....

If you have one main and the nose locked, do you land like that or do you pull all the gears up and belly it in? My training has been land on the good main and nose, keep the opposite wing off as long as possible, maintain certerline with rudder and tiller.

The question is to broad. To many variables that are unknown. Skill level and time of the pilot, type of aircraft, wing and engine location, number of engines, pistion or jet, condition of runway, i.e soft, short, paved. Wind and weather conditions, etc.

However I think if I were to land with the gear down, I would land off centerline to the side that had the main wheel down. Less chance of going off the runway.

 

[nosehair]

The question is to broad. To many variables that are unknown. Skill level and time of the pilot, type of aircraft, wing and engine location, number of engines, pistion or jet, condition of runway, i.e soft, short, paved. Wind and weather conditions, etc.

Doesn't matter. Belly in. On the grass if you can. Pull the mixtures on short final as soon as you are sure you have the runway made and are not going to overshoot. Bump the props parallel to the runway, switches and fuel off, and slide it on. Little or no damage to the belly.

Try it with one or two down, and yeah, maybe all those variables come into play, but still the damage is worse over-all regardless of skill and conditions.
​

 

[Lead Sled]

Doesn't matter. Belly in. On the grass if you can.

Not necessarily the smart thing to do. I agree with those who want more info.

'Sled

 

[SPBRIAN]

Doesn't matter. Belly in. On the grass if you can. Pull the mixtures on short final as soon as you are sure you have the runway made and are not going to overshoot. Bump the props parallel to the runway, switches and fuel off, and slide it on. Little or no damage to the belly.

Try it with one or two down, and yeah, maybe all those variables come into play, but still the damage is worse over-all regardless of skill and conditions.

​

I love these remarks, going to have to pull up a lawnchair and watch the fun you all will have with this. I seem to recall a few threads on this exact topic. My penny worth of knowledge, why create a bigger emergency by comitting yourself with absolutely no options, plus the ammount of time it takes to bump the props to horizontal could require pulling the mixtures at TPA. Silly Silly. Would you tell a brand new student with 50 hours to do this? My penny worth of thought on it.

-Brian

 

[RichardRambone]

Just eject

 

[ePilot22]

What Else!!!

Just eject

Gotta love the Military!

 

[hydroflyer]

I guess you might want to start with using the checklist. The plane will be damaged no matter how you do it, which means you will want the insurance company to cover it. I'll bet the insurance company will try not to pay if you do something other than what the checklist says. Most checklists that I have seen say to leave the gear as is, land on a hard surface runway, towards the side of the extended gear and hold the wing off as long as possible. Metal slides well on a hard surface and will dissipate the energy slower. I can't say I've seen a perfectly smooth grass strip, and it would be real easy for a wingtip to catch a divit or rut and spin the airplane around far worse than on pavement. Besides, not too many grassy areas have crash and fire rescue to stand by.

 

[indianboy7]

Any way you choose to do it, just make sure you do it very very carefully

 

[bafanguy]

Land on all available gear. Why would the airplane type/configuration make a difference ? If you're in a twin prop, why would you chose to bang up both props and engines and have belly damage when you might be able to get by with damage to one prop/engine and a wingtip.

Same for wing-mounted turbojet engines. Definitely the case with aft-fuselage-mounted turbojet engines.

Maybe I've overlooked something in this discussion ?

 

[Fury220]

Definitely the case with aft-fuselage-mounted turbojet engines.

Maybe I've overlooked something in this discussion ?

Nope. Not for me, at least.

Here's what my checklist says:

Both main gear up Nose up: LAND
Both main gear down Nose up: LAND
Both main gear up Nose down: EJECT
Only one main gear down Nose up OR down: EJECT

(Of course, if you have a "must eject" condition, try to at least achieve a landable configuration before electing for a controlled bailout... i.e.: with only one main and the nose gear down, try to pull them all up and then belly it in.)


I agree with my guidance. I don't want to cartwheel at 150KIAS. No thank you. To hell with the aircraft/paint job...I'm going to belly it in with full flaps and speedbrakes extended.

 

[KigAir]

Make low passes down the runway while your buddy riding in the back of a truck tries to extend the gear manually. Repeat until successful or you run out of fuel.

 

[pilotmiketx]

Doesn't matter. Belly in. On the grass if you can. Pull the mixtures on short final as soon as you are sure you have the runway made and are not going to overshoot. Bump the props parallel to the runway, switches and fuel off, and slide it on. Little or no damage to the belly.

Try it with one or two down, and yeah, maybe all those variables come into play, but still the damage is worse over-all regardless of skill and conditions.

​

Obviously an unqualified, uneducated guess.

Other than water, grass is probably the worst surface for a gear up landing. The soil gets in every seam and creates a tremendous force, which shears rivets, peels back sheet metal skins and bends bulkheads, not to mention what it does to wing attach fittings when you catch a wing tip. The smoother and harder the surface, the less damage will be done.

 

[nosehair]

Other than water, grass is probably the worst surface for a gear up landing. The soil gets in every seam and creates a tremendous force, which shears rivets, peels back sheet metal skins and bends bulkheads, not to mention what it does to wing attach fittings when you catch a wing tip. The smoother and harder the surface, the less damage will be done.

Yep, you are right, my man. I had totally forgotten about that. I've seen it, but forgotten about it.
​

 

[bafanguy]

Nope. Not for me, at least.

Here's what my checklist says:

Both main gear up Nose up: LAND
Both main gear down Nose up: LAND
Both main gear up Nose down: EJECT
Only one main gear down Nose up OR down: EJECT

(Of course, if you have a "must eject" condition, try to at least achieve a landable configuration before electing for a controlled bailout... i.e.: with only one main and the nose gear down, try to pull them all up and then belly it in.)


I agree with my guidance. I don't want to cartwheel at 150KIAS. No thank you. To hell with the aircraft/paint job...I'm going to belly it in with full flaps and speedbrakes extended.

Not everyone has the "eject" option. I've not flown an air carrier airplane where belly landing was recommended unless, of course, none of the gear came down.

The only case of this that comes to mind ( and I can't swear to all the details ) was a 727 in MIA some years ago. None of the gear would come down. The crew made a textbook belly landing with congrats to all concerned until it was discovered that there was no gear crank onboard in the airplane. This prevented any attempt to manually lower the gear.

ooops....those preflights are tricky...

 

[NoPax]

Flying a Twin Commander - Gear up, belly in. The props/engines won't touch the surface, the fuel is in between the engines, so no tipping over/fire hazard, nice flat bottom, just watch yourself getting out, might strain a hamstring.

 

[421Driver]

Land with what you have. In most civilian airplanes, you have a substantial amount of control authority to hold the wing with the affected landing gear off the runway.

I actually had something like this happen to me. Was in a C172RG, and upon return to the home airport, the right main did not extend. I was giving instruction at the time, so we followed the checklist, did a fly by to check the nose (C172 has only one light for gear down), and flew around for a while thinking about our options. Other people have used the truck idea, but I had my student fly, opened the door (with my seatbelt securely fastned), and reached down to grab the landing gear and yank it down. A month later some clown lands with the gear up. so much for saving the airplane...

 

[Fury220]

Not everyone has the "eject" option. I've not flown an air carrier airplane where belly landing was recommended unless, of course, none of the gear came down.

I hear ya on that. I consider the "EJECT" option a last ditch option. If I can, in any way, achieve a "landable configuration," I'm happy with a belly-in.

Of course, there are different considerations for different types of aircraft.

 

[91100 100 set]

Lots of variables, and I can't remember specifially what the checklist called for in any of the airplanes I've flown, but I seem to remember as a rule of thumb, on a prepared surface or dry ground, land with anything and everything you have, on water, leave the gear up. I have watched a King Air land with the right main missing (I don't know the story, but it was not stuck, it was missing). They appeared to touch down relatively smoothly (it looked okay from about 3,000 feet away), and held the right side up as long as possible. when it came down, the plane dragged off the right side of the runway into a cloud of dust and came to a stop facing the other direction. I don't remember seeing any prop feathering or anything and I nenver heard anythin about the extent of the damages, but the plane certainly didn't tumble.

If you have any gear at all, I would think that using it would help. There is alot of shock and energy absorbtion there, and a hard touchdown on the belly alone will transmit alot of vertical energy right into your backside.

 

[GravityHater]

There are also a handful of planes out there that will contact the ground, wheels first even when it is in the up position... after it burns through the gear doors DC-3 maybe?

 

[Lead Sled]

There are also a handful of planes out there that will contact the ground, wheels first even when it is in the up position... after it burns through the gear doors DC-3 maybe?

The long body MU-2s will roll on the wheels with the gear up. I even seem to remember that you would have braking. I would guess that King Airs would do the same. I'm sure that there are probably a few others.

'Sled

 

[pilotmiketx]

All this talk about trying to save the plane from damage concerns me. I feel that the pilot's job in an emergency is to protect the passengers and crew from damage and to hell with the plane. That's what insurance is for. People aren't replaceable, but planes are.

Don't ever put yourself in a position where you end up putting your life on the line because you want to keep your or your employer's plane from getting dinged. I've read too many accident reports where people died trying to stretch a glide to an airport while passing up perfectly good fields because they didn't want to damage the plane.

 

[ePilot22]

Everybody else?

I feel that the pilot's job in an emergency is to protect the passengers and crew from damage....

and the people on the ground!

and to hell with the plane.

Better.

 

[ePilot22]

Check This Out

Well, here's what a 737 crew did.........

http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photogallery/Videos/737%20Gear%20up.mpg

Not Bad!

 

[RJPilott]

Each and every one of you are correct. Basically what it boils down to is you, the pilot flying the airplane and what you are comfortable with given all the factors on that particular day (type of airplane, wx, skill level, advice from the ground.. etc). The PIC is the only one that can make a decision that they are most comfortable with during this scenario. The most comfortable decision for one pilot may be the complete opposite for another pilot under the same circumstance, yet both will be successful because they were comfortable with their decision. And of course always consult the checklist first to aid your decision as others have mentioned.


By the way, i believe the thread starter was focusing on a type of airplane bigger than a light single or twin. Notice his use of the word "tiller" to hold centerline.

 

[Donsa320]

Well, here's what a 737 crew did.........

http://www.alexisparkinn.com/photogallery/Videos/737%20Gear%20up.mpg

Not Bad!

Hmmm, not so good either. Those auto-spoilers could have been done without.

DC

 

[FN FAL]

I love these remarks, going to have to pull up a lawnchair and watch the fun you all will have with this. I seem to recall a few threads on this exact topic. My penny worth of knowledge, why create a bigger emergency by comitting yourself with absolutely no options, plus the ammount of time it takes to bump the props to horizontal could require pulling the mixtures at TPA. Silly Silly. Would you tell a brand new student with 50 hours to do this? My penny worth of thought on it.

-Brian

I got a buddy that did exactly this same heroic thing...didn't end up heroically, though.

This kool guy method is just like FEMA, looks good on paper...but doesn't really help you out much.

My buddy wound up in the landing lights because of the shut 'er down and calendar the props philosophy.

 

[FN FAL]

By the way, i believe the thread starter was focusing on a type of airplane bigger than a light single or twin. Notice his use of the word "tiller" to hold centerline.

It doesn't matter how many people you kill, they can only sentence you to life in prison so many times and unless you're a cat, only the first sentence matters anyway. As far as the civil suit goes, if you don't have none, they won't get none.