Labor Problems at the "new" US Airways

[JetMonkey]

I gotta add a little good press to this. I had an overnight last week in which we shared a hotel van with an US Airways crew, I must admit when the van driver said that we were waiting for a US Air crew and knowing that the ride to the hotel was going to be fairly long, I said to myself "uh oh". From the moment they got into the van they were all very polite. The Capt sat shotgun and was pretty much to himself so I wasen't to sure what to make about him, but all the FA's and the FO were very nice and we all struck a conversation with them right away, I was thinking "ok, this is good".

Right before we arrived at the hotel, we invited them down for a beverage, the Capt and Fo accepted. So later down at the bar four pilots that are merging sat together like civilized people and had a few drinks and dinner, we all got along perfectly fine, later one of their FA's joined us and the conversation became that more enjoyable, they were just regular folk just like us, they wanted to know some things about our company, we asked questions about their side, it was very pleasant. I will say that we both never got into the subject of senority intergration but to be perfectly honest, the time with them whent by so nice that I actually forgot all about it. These stories about fights on the hotel van and such will ALLWAYS get the headlines of course, and yes all companies have their batch of people like that, but I'm convinced that those incidents will be a very, VERY small percentage. Me and the Capt. walked away from that dinner feeling much better and optimistic about the merger as a whole. It was my first encounter with a US Airways crew and I must admit I was very skeptical at first, I guess it's just human nature to be that way. But if most of them are this way and I'm sure they are and I know our people are mostly that way too, I do believe we got a great opportunity here, I hope it turns out well for all.

 

[Draginass]

"Nice" has nothing to do with it. When it starts coming down to the brass tact numbers, that's when you really find out what's happening.

 

[TWA Dude]

This is shaping up to make the AA-TWA integration look tame.

Wrong. Both sides (pilots) know the process is fair. There's no comparison.

 

[MK82Man]

Not that bad

Cactus – thanks for starting a new thread, we didn’t want to hijack the other one.

I’m kinda suspect of the Arizona Republican article. I just haven’t seen any of the “negative” the article leads you to believe. Is it just one of those “bad news sells better than good news stories?” I completely disagree with those folks who think this is going to be “ugly” merger. You would expect every group to negotiate the best they possibly can, but does that mean “labor disaster at hand, the carrier is doomed?” I can’t speak about any of the “non-pilot” groups, just don’t live in there world, and I haven’t had anyone come to me with a “firsthand account” of a “horror story” caused by a US Air counterpart. Even the non-pilot groups recognize we need to come together to succeed.

Sure folks here on this board trade/promote/advocate ideas and thoughts around … but try to find the common ground. Keep “the Golden Rule” front and center. Call me naïve, but treat anyone else, no matter who they are, exactly how you would want to be treated. Every USAir crew/agent/ramper/pilot I’ve met has been 100% professional everywhere I’ve been in the system. I can only imagine what it would have been like on their side and lived through the steady decline in benefits the experienced in the last five years alone. Most have a way better attitude than I would have expected. The FLL ramp supervisor came into the jet the other day with his business card and said “here … contact me via phone, fax, or email if there is any problem”… when is the last time you saw that at your carrier? I haven’t seen anything about fights or yelling matches at Van sites from the company or from anyone in the union and if there were credible instances of such events, why wouldn’t we get something from the Chief Pilot’s office or MEC to cease and desist. I would hope none of our guys would be pompous enough to want to instigate such events. Jet Monkey, I think you were right to steer clear of “integration.” That is what we have a merger committee for, why get in to it at a pilot level … the union will solve that. Now don’t mistake me for wanting to give up some of our contract to them just because of what they have been through …. Rather I’d like to hope we can raise them to our pay/benefits. Let’s work together to get the best possible deal for all of us with management and then let’s get down to the business at hand. The one thing I know is how tremendously important it is that all of us (US Air East and US Air West) do our best to creating the best possible carrier for our combined future.

Will everyone be happy, no, but America is a competitive business environment. I want the best for our FAs and the best for our Mechanics, etc, but at the end of the day if you are not happy with your work environment you leave to go somewhere else. If you can find a better deal, take it. Always have a Plan B so that if you think Plan A blows, then jump ship and move to Plan B. I hope we bring the furloughed AAA dudes back as soon as possible. From what I've seen, we are on a good road to creating a great airline for both groups ...

On the topic of integration I can only speak for myself but hope it is representative of most at AWA. Relative Seniority. If you were top 8% at USAir you will be top 8% at the new USAir, sitting at 66% at AWA, you will be sitting at 66% at the new USAir, if you were last at AWA (Dave), he may/could/would/should be last at the new USAir (he would probably expect that). Everyone stays were they are relative wise. Since the TA says the furloughed USAir guys come onboard after Dave, he moves up as he would with any new hire. I can’t imagine that Dave would want it any other way.

TWA Dude, new avatar but same rock steady sense of fairness. I always know you will take the higher ground. I’m hopeful all of us at AWA will continue to strive for the fairest deal for every East and West employee ….

 

[PHXFLYR]

I jumpseat on "Original Issue" USAir every week commuting to work from the east coast. I must echo what TWA Dude and Mk82Man have said. Everyone has been very cordial and 100 percent professional and are hoping that they can salvage something from what's left of their careers. I have experienced none of the nonsense that Cactus 73 alleges (flame bait,Cactus?). Now if we can only get Be Careful to play nice,we might really have something going here



PHXFLYR

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Yesterday, The Arizona Republic ran a well done article on
For the AWA pilots - please don't forget to vote for the LEC 62 elections. Voting ends in a few days and the leaders we elect will have a huge impact on our careers. (I'm posting this here, because our MEC has decided to shut down the AWA web board).

C73 I agree the people should get out an take an active interest in the voting process because after all it is our futures. Now regarding your comment about the web board and your posting here. You are a regular on this forum so please don't add insult to injury by making that statement. What was done was on the advice of our atty. I do hope that's good enough for you...

WD.

 

[Cactus73]

C73 I agree the people should get out an take an active interest in the voting process because after all it is our futures. Now regarding your comment about the web board and your posting here. You are a regular on this forum so please don't add insult to injury by making that statement. What was done was on the advice of our atty. I do hope that's good enough for you...

WD.

MK82man,

I'm excited about this merger. I think we have some potential to kick some major butt in the future. But don't kid yourself that it is going to be a quick and easy process to get to a merged happy family. Talk to CAL pilots about the warm and fuzzies between the People Express, Frontier, NY Air, and original CAL guys.

As I said in my post, I've had very good actual encounters with AAA folk, except for STL. I was treated like gold by two separate crews on my vacation to Europe.

BTW, be a little careful (no pun to the AAA poster) above Dave O'dell's or anyones expectations. I want a relative seniority type integration too, but there are other factors in ALPA merger policy such as career expectations that will be argued in front of an arbitrator if it goes that far. Dave will want his "expectation" protected and a straight ratio may or may not do this.

PHXFLYR,

No flame bait. There have been some instances as the Republic pointed out and McClelland acknowledged. I assume and hope they are rare. I have a friend on the JS committee here and he says that they had to put out a fire caused by one of OUR pilots on AAA to keep it out of the CPO.

WD,

Sorry about the web board post. It was a cheap shot. But I want all of our guys that get on here to vote. This is our chance to show the AAA guys and management that we are involved in the process and care about our futures.


Sorry to all that I may have offended. It's good to hear that you have had good experiences. Those of us on the 737 have limited exposure to the AAA side as we don't fly east of MKE. But to ignore/deny that there has been and there will be friction is not fair either.

 

[AutoBus]

passed through PHL recently, everyone treated us cactii well, very concerned about getting us out on time with no fowl-ups. They could use a lesson or two on filtering out oversized carry on bags, however..

 

[aa73]

Wrong. Both sides (pilots) know the process is fair. There's no comparison.

As an AA "native" I would agree completely. I'd like to point out that whenever two ALPA airlines merge, if seniority issues cannot be worked out then it is sent to neutral arbitration. No pilot group is allowed to impose an integration that the other pilot group disagrees on. In TWA/AA's case, AA management and the APA forced TWA's pilots to waive their rights to neutral arbitration as a condition of continued employment at AA. Obviously, they were scared that a neutral arbitrator would have imposed something the APA did not want. This was completely out of line, but unfortunately quite common when an ALPA airline merges with a non-ALPA airline (and the non-ALPA airline is the acquiring carrier.)

US/AWA pilots, I sincerely hope yours is not a repeat of what happened to us. Fortunately, the fact that you are both ALPA will prevent an ugly replay. Keep up the professionalism.

73

 

[Green]

Wrong. Both sides (pilots) know the process is fair. There's no comparison.

I don't know about that one. Wish you were right though. Our (AWA) merger committee just sent out a blast email stating that the AAA merger committee will not back down from thier belief that date of hire is the only fair way to integrate. Even worse, they feel that their furloughees once recalled should have date of hire for upgrade, etc. Also they refuse to acknowledge that AWA planned on flying to Hawaii prior to the merger. Looks like they want a piece of that as well.

So looks like they want to screw us about as hard as our Fa's are going to get it. Sounds reasonable to me considering their carreer expectations. We should be happy just to be able to one day wear the same uniforms as these guys....

 

[Green]

You know one more thing to consider is that the ual-aaa merger was killed by one thing alone, the ual pilots. Apparently when the merger was announced the AAA line pilots started talking about how they were looking forward to bidding the 747, getting based out west, etc. This scared the ual guys who eventually sunk the deal.

I tend to think that the average line guy at AAA wants to make sure they don't do ANYTHING to kill this deal because it is their last hope. So they play nice in public, saying we need to be fair and everything. However, once we've reached the point where the merger is consumated, now, the gloves come off and they'll fight like h#ll for date of hire.

 

[PHXFLYR]

Green,

I wouldn't get too bent out of shape reading about what the AAA Merger Committee wants. The ARBITRATOR will decide how this abortion with wings gets pieced together senority wise, not the AAA merger commitee. or ours for that matter.

PHXFLYR

 

[jetalc]

AirTran pilots did it just after 9/11, when they agreed to a 60 day pay rollback, in exchange for a guarantee of no furloughs for the newhires.

Frontier did it also right after 9/11. 10% paycut in exchange for not furloughing. Pretty cool.

 

[AA717driver]

AWA MEC shut down the message board?

That must be in the ALPA play book. The TWA MEC did just that at a time when the rank and file could have shared information and debated the issue of the merger with AA. That debate could have resulted in different players with a different outcome.

Watch your backs, Cacti, your MEC may be up to something.TC

 

[stb]

Sad but my opinion, AWA saved the anchor of the Titanic from a row boat.

Good Luck!