L-3 Flight International?

[goofyfoot]

Anyone know anything? Pay, Schedule, all the usuals. Sounds like they do a lot of government contract stuff.

 

[jaxpilot]

Yeah I was wondering the same thing- Saw an ad for Lear 25/35/36 FO's in San Diego and Newport News...

 

[Man-Ditch]

It's mostly for flying EW platforms over in Iraq and Afghanistan, if your into that type of job.

I'm trying to get on with them and a few others but I've done this type of work before and I have a SpecOps background. They are really looking for a very narrow range of pilot. There are a lot of things that have to be the right fit for them on your resume, and your situation. Usually, they have people already selected for the jobs, but because it's a DoD contract, they are required to post it.

100 day rotations downrange flying nights, with 60-70 days Stateside, doing light duty supervised A/C maint.

You fly circuits over Hot zones and look for bad guys and hope they don't have any surface-air capability.
If you have an Emergency or have to land, you could be on your own for a while until they can come get you. If your a nervous type you won't make it past one rotation, so the vetting process is fairly complete. It's really got to be your thing and you have to have the background to prove it. Pay is just OK...it's a livin'.

 

[The_Russian]

You fly circuits over Hot zones and look for bad guys and hope they don't have any surface-air capability.
If you have an Emergency or have to land, you could be on your own for a while until they can come get you. If your a nervous type you won't make it past one rotation, so the vetting process is fairly complete. It's really got to be your thing and you have to have the background to prove it. Pay is just OK...it's a livin'.

Sounds like fun.

 

[Man-Ditch]

Afgani-
Terrain: High and lots of it (mostly rocks)
Alt airstrips:NIL
Guys who don't like you: endless
Flying for 8hrs with Dysentary: Hell

Something to tell your Grandkids: Priceless!

 

[TWA]

Flying for 8hrs with Dysentary: Hell

I think there's a thread in the cargo section about that! :laugh:

 

[152hvy]

It's mostly for flying EW platforms over in Iraq and Afghanistan, if your into that type of job.

I'm trying to get on with them and a few others but I've done this type of work before and I have a SpecOps background. They are really looking for a very narrow range of pilot. There are a lot of things that have to be the right fit for them on your resume, and your situation. Usually, they have people already selected for the jobs, but because it's a DoD contract, they are required to post it.

100 day rotations downrange flying nights, with 60-70 days Stateside, doing light duty supervised A/C maint.

You fly circuits over Hot zones and look for bad guys and hope they don't have any surface-air capability.
If you have an Emergency or have to land, you could be on your own for a while until they can come get you. If your a nervous type you won't make it past one rotation, so the vetting process is fairly complete. It's really got to be your thing and you have to have the background to prove it. Pay is just OK...it's a livin'.

How does it work ? A civilian flying around in a war zone.... are you provided with a side arm?
Does it include some field training aside from just flying?

I'm beginning to like it..... !!

 

[Man-Ditch]

Depends on the contract. Where, when, what and who.
Me, I've got a SpecOps background- SEALs (don't get excited, it was 20 years ago and we had no budget, no equipment- I carried an M-14 Vietnam era Automatic and you couldn't hit sh!t with it, but I could swim and run like a SOB!)
I have been over there a few times already and have contacts and it's still hard getting picked up. I've had a few phone interviews, but still waiting.
As far as training, it's like anything else. If it's part of the OPS Spec and Contract with the DoD, then you get training.
Make no mistake, it is hard ass work 14-16hr days for 3 months strait. You get time off when you get back and your body is a wreck. You will sleep for days, and be sick for weeks after and loose 10-15 lbs. Just when your starting to feel better and you wife is talking to you again...time to rotate.
If you got the background, go for it. If not, don't hold your breath. And your background has to be squeeky clean. No arrests, DUI, Drug use convictions, nothing! They will check all of that before they even do the phone interview.

 

[Man-Ditch]

One other thing, yes they give you a sidearm, sometimes. But usually you turn it in after the op. It's heavy and uncomfortable and just one more thing to deal with. Nobody cares, because everyone has one and most are bigger than yours.

 

[kingairyahoo]

...kudos for all the downsides, but they aint all that bad or require near that kind of background.

however, most get stars in their eyes when they see the 18,000 a month paycheck and tend to gloss over all the possibilities

 

[Cat3C]

L3

You fly circuits over Hot zones and look for bad guys and hope they don't have any surface-air capability.
If you have an Emergency or have to land, you could be on your own for a while until they can come get you. If your a nervous type you won't make it past one rotation, so the vetting process is fairly complete. It's really got to be your thing and you have to have the background to prove it. Pay is just OK...it's a livin'.[/quote]

Kind of like flying into MDW after dark or driving the Dan Ryan...

 

[capnflyright]

Let's put the guts and glory aside here. They are flying King Air 300/350s. Alternates aren't a problem, you are flying as a military contractor so the world is your oyster. The mil will take you in and keep you comfy with PAR approaches, a DFAC and a shower. Also, bad guys shooting at you isn't going to be a problem. You are going to be really high making large orbits looking/listening for these people and you are going to get bored doing it. With two healthy pratts you aren't going to need a sidearm, you'll make it to an airport. Now if both donkeys konk out on ya, well, the paycheck was worth it right? That's why it's adventurous and worth telling your grandkids! If everything was copacetic then where's the fun?

Fly around these areas single engine and low level. That's when you worry about having an AK and/or MP5 and a runaway bag!

 

[Man-Ditch]

Actually- just had my second interview for this gig, not L3 but at another in VA.

Unpressurized BE90's, fly tight circuits over a SpecOp unit while they are on a field mission. You fly almost every night or day, four pilots and two mechanics go with each A/C.
One month training to include Procedures, weapons training and survival school at Ft. Benning, GA. Then gear issue. You are attached to a specific unit and you go to every pre and post-briefing. Weather is the only reason you don't fly.
There are systems on board to detect when your being painted with radar or taking fire. There is also an armor plate under the seat along with some other equipment "to keep you alive" as they put it, but which they could not give details because I wasn't cleared yet. These are highly modified A/C.
They issue two automatic weapons per aircraft for each and every op- required!

Hazard pay/hardship pay/per diem- 110 day rotations OCONUS and 98 days CONUS. You can live where ever you want. Upgrade to CA after two rotations.
FO- 13k per month
CA- 16k per month
And yes they care very much about your background! they want to be assured that you know what your getting into. They have had too many people go over and cry about wanting to come home after one month...or just not show up for the next rotation.
This is not easy work, trust me- 13k doesn't sound like much after a few weeks. I've been there making $1200/day and it gets old real fast, it is one of the most miserable places on earth.

 

[cams0820]

Man-Ditch: Who are some of the other outfits that do this type work overseas besides L-3. I'm an old Navy aviator and have the quals. I'm looking for something different than current job. I understand the austere conditions (lived on carriers for 6-8 months at a time and have been to some of the not-so-nice places around the world. I'm still in reserves and have TS/SCI clearances, just pondering my options...thanks in advance.

 

[kingairyahoo]

cams...hes referring to Dynamic Aviation, although his experience appears to be a low time guy who got placed in the 90. the other slot is for 200's and if you have lotsa 200 time, you can opt for that one. they fly lines and grids as opposed to basically turning circles, being a radio transmitter for the ground forces. also can be upgraded in your first rotation if the 200 time you have is significant. they have ads out all over the 'net as they plan on doubling their overseas fleet and are scrambling to fill the seats

 

[LNJPilot]

Yep, I have a phone interview next week with them (DA). I applied about two months ago and have had several "phone interviews" with Amy. I have about 500 in the KA's, mostly the 200 and an A&P, which seems what they are looking for. She asked me how much I knew about the different models of PT-6's, how much time in each aircraft I had, if I minded the 100 plus days on the road, that sort of stuff. We'll see what happens....

 

[Man-Ditch]

Kingairyahoo's got it right. I think L3 does the same thing but they bought all of the surplus Lear 35's and DA got all of the 90's

CAMS- apply and I'm sure you'll get a call. Also try Avenge Aviation- BE20's and 30's, they want MIL flight time. Blackwater is another, but a different mission.

I haven't flown there yet but have done a few rotations as High-risk diplomatic escort to all of the worlds garden spots. Just finally got enough hours to compete. All of this stuff is going to ramp up as they start drawing down troops-just to be replaced by contractors to some extent. Then it will all shift to Afghanistan. There will be work for awhile.

LNJPilot- PM me and I'll give you the gouge on the sim, sounds like your in the running as well.

 

[cams0820]

Guys, are there any major differences (pay, benefits, rotations, etc.) between Dynamic, L-3 and Avenge or are they basically different companies doing the same type mission?

 

[Man-Ditch]

I'll have more info on Avenge in a few weeks.

No intel on L-3, they are a huge company though.

 

[cams0820]

Man-Ditch: Roger that, I sent an app to L-3, we'll see what happens, let me know what you find...thanks.

 

[skeeter666]

so how many days are you off during rotations?

 

[kingairyahoo]

skeeter, depends on who hires you and when...

 

[rhinoflyer]

You guys have any updates? (Dynamic, L-3, Avenge etc.) I'm applying to all, I have 2500+ mil time, but is my lack of "time in type" a show stopper? Thanks.

 

[SoundBarViolatr]

You guys have any updates? (Dynamic, L-3, Avenge etc.) I'm applying to all, I have 2500+ mil time, but is my lack of "time in type" a show stopper? Thanks.

Second that, would be interested in doing some tactical flying again. Anyone have a ball park figure on the salary + bennies + hostile fire/hazard/tax free/etc?

I don't have any KA/TP time though...

 

[JohnnyP]

......

Let's put the guts and glory aside here. They are flying King Air 300/350s. Alternates aren't a problem, you are flying as a military contractor so the world is your oyster. The mil will take you in and keep you comfy with PAR approaches, a DFAC and a shower. Also, bad guys shooting at you isn't going to be a problem. You are going to be really high making large orbits looking/listening for these people and you are going to get bored doing it. With two healthy pratts you aren't going to need a sidearm, you'll make it to an airport. Now if both donkeys konk out on ya, well, the paycheck was worth it right? That's why it's adventurous and worth telling your grandkids! If everything was copacetic then where's the fun?

Fly around these areas single engine and low level. That's when you worry about having an AK and/or MP5 and a runaway bag!

I can agree with all of the above.....good summary.

I am edging up on three years of this flying, and just let me say it can get ultra-gnarly out there....And i'm not even talking about terrain or some hostile threat, those usually end up being the last thing on my mind.....well maybe not the last thing, but they are on down the list.....

I have never been a part of companies with such ghastly mis-management....Stuff will just boggle your mind and alter your senses....

But on top of that, I am happier out here than I was in commuter airline-heaven, so for now i'm all set.

But be warned, you are a one-man band out here when it comes to support from the company, your boss, management, maintenance, your fellow pilots, etc.....I know thats true at any operation, but it takes a different meaning out here....Your support structure is your own self....

Time to sharpen your shank, your about to fall into the prison yard.....get ready!.....

And on top of that, if your an Alaskan Bush pilot, nothing will bother you, you'll fit in fine....

 

[Man-Ditch]

L-3

So it seems Avenge may have been picked up by L-3 and L-3 is now operating KA 300/350. So it's a new or expanded operation. My application-resume might get walked in to the HR manager this week. So I am hoping for an interview at least.

Anyone got gouge on the L3 interview process and/or SIM.

 

[Pistlpetet]

There are systems on board to detect when your being painted with radar or taking fire. There is also an armor plate under the seat along with some other equipment "to keep you alive" as they put it, but which they could not give details because I wasn't cleared yet. These are highly modified A/C.
They issue two automatic weapons per aircraft for each and every op- required!.

In your "Spec Ops" past, you must have learned something about OPSEC. If you were indeed a SEAL, you should not be stooping to the level of the clowns on Flight Info.

 

[jafo20]

There's a lot of variability in the type of flying you can get assigned to. If you have a weird sense of humor and you're pretty mellow, you'll be fine. I'm including non DoD/DoS work into this, too.

Whether you carry a gun or not doesn't really matter unless you've got to do some of the weirder stuff. Weirder stuff would include going to a bank to get a sack of cash or otherwise exposing yourself to petty crime.

I guess I'm trying to say it doesn't really matter whether or not you're sent out to fly with a gun. There's more important stuff to consider.

Knowing what I know now, I'd advise guys to look at this:

If the company changes policies on you after you get into the country, are you going to be stuck? If the ******************** hits the fan, can you airline back out? Can you do this without using any of the company assets (drivers, contacts, etc.)?

Consider your transportation and housing. Til you get a month or two in-country, you're going to be living in the compound or other safe spot that you have. Life will be similar to that experienced on an aircraft carrier (luxury aircraft carrier?). If things are going to get under your skin over a week or two, you'll be crawling up the walls in month or two.

Where are your paychecks coming from, and is there anyone who goes to jail if you don't get the pay you're promised? (This won't be a likely factor with DoD or DoS stuff.) If pay isn't directly deposited into your US or EU bank accounts, can you get your cash out of the country? What banking and financial limitations and capabilities exist with regard to your potential assignment?

Evaluate the amount of support your potential employer gives its crews in the field. Compare what they tell you to what you hear from crews, handlers, etc. If there's a big split between what's advertised and what's delivered, be ready for a surprise. How do they plan on getting important parts to the base? How do they plan on taking care of maintenance? Is this realistic? How will parts move from the DHL airliner to your particular airplane? Will you have to hire a trusted local to escort your deliveries past certain authorities/agents?

Look at any other pertinent logistic and political concern regarding the assignment. You'll find that the DoD stuff based out of US military facilities is pretty chill compared to guys flying Dash-7s in Liberia.

If you do finally decide to go, know that you're going to get some nasty and some pleasant surprises. Roll with it, man, and try not to get sick. You'll have a really cool time, if you're whacked like me.

 

[7777]

There's a lot of variability in the type of flying you can get assigned to. If you have a weird sense of humor and you're pretty mellow, you'll be fine. I'm including non DoD/DoS work into this, too.

Whether you carry a gun or not doesn't really matter unless you've got to do some of the weirder stuff. Weirder stuff would include going to a bank to get a sack of cash or otherwise exposing yourself to petty crime.

I guess I'm trying to say it doesn't really matter whether or not you're sent out to fly with a gun. There's more important stuff to consider.

Knowing what I know now, I'd advise guys to look at this:

If the company changes policies on you after you get into the country, are you going to be stuck? If the ******************** hits the fan, can you airline back out? Can you do this without using any of the company assets (drivers, contacts, etc.)?

Consider your transportation and housing. Til you get a month or two in-country, you're going to be living in the compound or other safe spot that you have. Life will be similar to that experienced on an aircraft carrier (luxury aircraft carrier?). If things are going to get under your skin over a week or two, you'll be crawling up the walls in month or two.

Where are your paychecks coming from, and is there anyone who goes to jail if you don't get the pay you're promised? (This won't be a likely factor with DoD or DoS stuff.) If pay isn't directly deposited into your US or EU bank accounts, can you get your cash out of the country? What banking and financial limitations and capabilities exist with regard to your potential assignment?

Evaluate the amount of support your potential employer gives its crews in the field. Compare what they tell you to what you hear from crews, handlers, etc. If there's a big split between what's advertised and what's delivered, be ready for a surprise. How do they plan on getting important parts to the base? How do they plan on taking care of maintenance? Is this realistic? How will parts move from the DHL airliner to your particular airplane? Will you have to hire a trusted local to escort your deliveries past certain authorities/agents?

Look at any other pertinent logistic and political concern regarding the assignment. You'll find that the DoD stuff based out of US military facilities is pretty chill compared to guys flying Dash-7s in Liberia.

If you do finally decide to go, know that you're going to get some nasty and some pleasant surprises. Roll with it, man, and try not to get sick. You'll have a really cool time, if you're whacked like me.

The best post in this thread.

 

[AlphaSierra01]

I'll have more info on Avenge in a few weeks.

No intel on L-3, they are a huge company though.

Any information about Avenge since October?