KTEB departures and delays

[MaxTorque]

Our department typically uses KEWR for NYC visits but we have recently started going to TEB. TEB seems a little more complex & shorter, but these potential risks can be easily overcome by professional flight crews, right? Recently we were told "indefinite delays" if we wanted the Teterboro 5 but we could get the Dolan with an IFR pickup. Generally such is prohibited by our FOM but there are some limited exceptions. I wouldn't dream of just popping up VFR around busy class B airspace looking for a pick-up but clearance convinced us it was a bit of a work-around since standard IFR separation was problematic and they wouldn't hang us out to dry... It worked out as advertised but I had a couple of contingency plans in mind. For you TEB regulars, is this standard? IF we had held out for a regular IFR departure would a long delay (hour?) been likely?

I have waited in long lines to get out of EWR but at least you can see what is going on. Does ATC view TEB departures as second tier and only work them in "as available"?

Thanks for your thoughts/experience on this.
MT

 

[sleepy]

Did you mean the Dalton departure? If so, I would say that the only time I use that is when we are departing during noise hours and the weather is good VFR. I have done that once in four years. I have never been offered the Dalton departure, usually they will tell to to taxi to runway 24 and not even tell you that you will be getting a noise letter from the Port Authority after you depart. I have never been offered the Dalton as a way to avoid delays.

I don't know it as a fact, but I suspect that EWR traffic has some sort of priority over TEB traffic. TEB operations are totally dependent on which way EWR is departing. What seems to matter the most for delays is which gate (fix) you are departing over. I file CDR routes and carry enough extra fuel to be able to depart over another gate and fly for 300 miles in the wrong direction just in case. I also find the NBAA GA Desk to be helpful in providing information on delays, alternate routes, the number of aircraft scheduled to depart at any given time, etc......

The worst times for delays at TEB are Monday mornings and Friday afternoons, or any time weather is in the area.

 

[rettofly]

I love NY.. Not!

The worst times for delays at TEB are Monday mornings and Friday afternoons, or any time weather is in the area.

Sundays after 3PM aren't much fun either!

Anybody been having issues getting in or out of HPN lately? A few weeks ago I watched a Hawker doing s-turns (requested by the tower) all the way to short final, had a go-around caused by someone on the crossing runway and watched another Hawker get a go-around while I was on downwind for my next pass.
In addition, taxi delays seem to be getting out of hand. Last two times there, I had a 25 min delay taxiing to the ramp and 45 min on a departure. HPN tower told another pilot that TRACON is really tying their hands lately.

 

[Raskal]

Did you mean the Dalton departure? If so, I would say that the only time I use that is when we are departing during noise hours and the weather is good VFR. I have done that once in four years. I have never been offered the Dalton departure, usually they will tell to to taxi to runway 24 and not even tell you that you will be getting a noise letter from the Port Authority after you depart. I have never been offered the Dalton as a way to avoid delays.

I don't know it as a fact, but I suspect that EWR traffic has some sort of priority over TEB traffic. TEB operations are totally dependent on which way EWR is departing. What seems to matter the most for delays is which gate (fix) you are departing over. I file CDR routes and carry enough extra fuel to be able to depart over another gate and fly for 300 miles in the wrong direction just in case. I also find the NBAA GA Desk to be helpful in providing information on delays, alternate routes, the number of aircraft scheduled to depart at any given time, etc......

The worst times for delays at TEB are Monday mornings and Friday afternoons, or any time weather is in the area.

I've been offered the Dalton multiple times out of TEB to avoid delays, usually clearance comes right out and asks if you can accept it. We used it when we needed to, there have been discussions before on the board about doing it or not.

As for EWR traffic, since the Dalton routes you right underneath the EWR approach traffic I don't know if it's as much a priority issue as it is maintining seperation.

As to best times? Who knows, out of the hundred times I've gone in there it was almost always completely opposite of what I expected on arrival no matter day or time. It's absolutely crazy how unpredictable it is.

I know everyone seems to hate it, but TEB grew on me over time and I came to like it an awful lot more than any of the big three or surrounding airports. Dare I say I actually miss going in there a little bit?

 

[CopilotDoug]

My understandfing was you to request the Dalton departure? They don't have it in the NOS books (Don't know about the Jepps) and I've only seen it in the A/FD. It doesn't have the IFR seperation minimums, which is why you're holding for such a long time on for the TEB 5.

If you say you've been offered it, Raskal, I believe you.

 

[G100driver]

Dalton is in Jepp.

We use TEB so long as we are not departing Thurs or Fri afternnon.

We have had lots of sucess at MMU. Minimal delays (when compared to the alternatives). Crosswinds can be a little much, however.

 

[Bandit60]

Did you mean the Dalton departure? If so, I would say that the only time I use that is when we are departing during noise hours and the weather is good VFR. I have done that once in four years. I have never been offered the Dalton departure, usually they will tell to to taxi to runway 24 and not even tell you that you will be getting a noise letter from the Port Authority after you depart. I have never been offered the Dalton as a way to avoid delays.

I don't know it as a fact, but I suspect that EWR traffic has some sort of priority over TEB traffic. TEB operations are totally dependent on which way EWR is departing. What seems to matter the most for delays is which gate (fix) you are departing over. I file CDR routes and carry enough extra fuel to be able to depart over another gate and fly for 300 miles in the wrong direction just in case. I also find the NBAA GA Desk to be helpful in providing information on delays, alternate routes, the number of aircraft scheduled to depart at any given time, etc......

The worst times for delays at TEB are Monday mornings and Friday afternoons, or any time weather is in the area.

This is a little off the topic, but I see you filed CDR routes. The last time I did that and asked to use one to aviod a lengthy delay, the control asked me what I was talking about. I asked him if he say that I had filed CDR routes and he said yes, and then said "does that mean you are rvsm?". After that response, I started asking controllers across the country if they know what CDR meant and 90% had no idea.

Its a great thing to due if the controller know what it means.

 

[MaxTorque]

TEB Departure

Yep, Dalton. Don't know where I got Dolan from. That also explains why I got no hits when searching for TEB & Dolan! Thanks for the replies - good info.

We were definitely offered the Dalton as I wouldn't have requested it. In the end it was painless but just outside how we normally operate.
MT

 

[Shag McNasty]

This is a little off the topic, but I see you filed CDR routes. The last time I did that and asked to use one to aviod a lengthy delay, the control asked me what I was talking about. I asked him if he say that I had filed CDR routes and he said yes, and then said "does that mean you are rvsm?". After that response, I started asking controllers across the country if they know what CDR meant and 90% had no idea.

Its a great thing to due if the controller know what it means.

That's because you don't request CDR routes just so you can get to the head of the line. If ATC determines that it's necessary to reroute traffic using CDR routes, then they will issue you an abbreviated clearance if you're able to accept. It's an ATC tool used to reduce coordination and communication time. It's not a pilot tool used to avoid waiting in line.

 

[G100driver]

On another TEB topic, did they stop doing the VOR-A? Last 2 times I was there I did the ILS 19 and the WX was VFR.