KTEB departures and delays

[GPilot]

G100,
maybe has to due with runway closures and that Lear thing that happened couple weeks ago...I haven't been over Wanes in a while.

 

[sleepy]

This is a little off the topic, but I see you filed CDR routes. The last time I did that and asked to use one to aviod a lengthy delay, the control asked me what I was talking about. I asked him if he say that I had filed CDR routes and he said yes, and then said "does that mean you are rvsm?". After that response, I started asking controllers across the country if they know what CDR meant and 90% had no idea.

Its a great thing to due if the controller know what it means.

As I understand the CDR routes when you file CDR capable in ArincDirect it is noted in your flight plan and the CDR's print along with your flight plan. You must have the CDR routes for that day in your possession. ATC should give you the re-route via a CDR automaticaly. I always file them when they are available. I only ever used them one time.

 

[chasmo]

The Dalton departure is only used off of rwy 19 when EWR is landing the 22's .

Here is an article that explains the reason.

To show you how flexible and innovative our present airspace system can be in the face of almost impossible runway conflict and congestion, look at Teterboro Airport just west of New York City. Teterboro's Runway 19 points almost directly at Newark, and the airports are only a few miles apart. When wind direction dictates that Runway 19 be used at Teterboro, the same wind means the parallel Runway 22s will be active at Newark. The stream of airliners crossing Teterboro on final for Runway 22 at Newark are so low they don't allow enough room for standard IFR separation for Runway 19 departures from Teterboro.

The solution for Teterboro departures, at least when the weather is 3,000 foot overcast with three miles visibility or better, is the unique Dalton departure. Pilots who ask for the Dalton — it cannot be assigned without pilot request — take off on Runway 19, but are actually departing VFR. At 800 feet in the climb a pilot flying the Dalton turns right to 280 degrees and continues the climb to 1,300 feet with a maximum speed limit of 190 knots. As soon as the turn is completed and the controllers issue a clearance to climb above 1,300 feet, the flight is automatically converted from VFR to IFR and everything is back to normal ATC procedures.

The Dalton is a bit of a rule beater because it puts the burden to maintaining separation on the pilot departing Teterboro for the first few miles because an airplane approaching Newark may not always have the full 1,000-foot vertical separation IFR standards require. But it's no different than a visual approach where traffic separation obligation transfers to the pilots, and it gets airplanes out of Teterboro without having to wait for a gap in the stream of Newark arrivals.​

 

[G100driver]

G100,
maybe has to due with runway closures and that Lear thing that happened couple weeks ago...I haven't been over Wanes in a while.

Guess I have been out of it. What Lear thing are you refering too?

 

[GPilot]

Tuesday July 08, 2008, 6:37 PM


Federal aviation officials are investigating why an air traffic controller at Teterboro Airport allowed a Lear Jet to land on a closed runway just as two workers were preparing to put down an "X" sign to show pilots the landing space was off limits.
The jet passed 150 feet over the workers, neither of whom was injured.
Flight 988, an LJ-45 operated by Jet Rider Inc., landed shortly after 5:30 a.m. on June 25, more than a half-hour after Runway 1-19 was shut down for work, said Jim Peters, a regional spokesman for the Federal Aviation Administration.
It was not immediately known how many people were aboard the Lear Jet.
Peters said the incident has been initially classified as "an operational error" by the lone air traffic controller, who was not identified. "The preliminary information is that the aircraft over-flew the area where the two people were working by about 150 feet," Peters said.
"We had a fully certified controller working in the tower" at the time of the incident, he said.
The "X Board," as it is called by airport employees, is a literally an enormous X that lights up and is put on a runway to clearly alert pilots of a closure. Peters said the employees were working at the runway's approach end between two taxiways when the plane landed, about seven minutes after regional air traffic controllers asked for and received permission from the local controller at Teterboro for the Lear Jet to land.
Marc La Vorgna, a spokesman for the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which operates the Bergen County airport, said the workers were agency employees preparing to put down the "X" sign because the runway was closed for either maintenance or inspection work.
They workers, he said, were at the edge of the runway and inside a vehicle when the incident occurred, La Vorgna said.

 

[bailout]

The Dalton departure is only used off of rwy 19 when EWR is landing the 22's .
— it cannot be assigned without pilot request —

I have never heard of anyone requesting it. When you call clearance, they ask if you can accept it. I would assume if you say no, then you'll be sitting there awhile.

 

[G100driver]

I used to request it all the time in summer. Due to weight restriction sometimes the only way we could make it to the west coast was to depart runway 19.

 

[Pattern-Master]

We just started using KFRG out on Long Island because the boss in the back got fed up with the delays at HPN and TEB. Ride is a little longer to NYC but we have had no problems getting in or out and that makes up for any kind of delays faced with at other airports.

 

[bailey3083]

My friends in ATC said it has come down that TEB is now allowed to send a plane every 5-7 mins during normal time and peak time 8-9 mins. Also those new and improved routes into NYC is causing huge issues with TEB. Bascially to answer the airlines complaints about us they have made sure traffic suffers at TEB.

 

[TimsKeeper]

kfrg

Be careful with FRG Friday thru Sunday as an alternative.

It is definately better than the alternative but you can get caught up in some delays there too. FRG has to coordinate it's IFR departures with JFK. When JFK is busy they don't pick up the phone and noone is going anywhere (especially on low IFR days).

If you truly want to beat the atc type delays KISP is always going to be a better choice (however the drive to Manhatten is an extra 20 mins longer).