King of the Union

[BentOver]

Apparently when you don't want to be recalled, as President, you can just change the recall process. All you need is a majority of your friends in office.

Forget about the item by item bylaw concerning how the actual recall process was supposed to work. Or that the total number of petitions needed was reached. Forget that the recall initiative was followed. Also forget that there will be no membership input.


Here's how I see it..... They're in an office, "how can we stop this?"

"I know, lets just change the Bylaws. Lets change them so it requires a majority of the Executive Board to allow a recall.? "How many voting members? 9?"

"That's easy, we have 5 right here. Bylaw passed. Now let's vote on if this recall should proceed. All in favor......"

 

[OPECJet]

Where are you getting this info?

 

[rajflyboy]

To be recalled there has to be Charges against someone. So far we have not heard of the charges against this person being recalled.

The group of 4 will simply not talk about the charges. They just want such person removed from office. The recall 4 have not presented there case at all.

This brings us down to the facts. If there is no Charges against this person there absolutely cannot be a recall of this person.

 

[BentOver]

The charges were explained. They have to do with a certain event in Omaha..

Whether your for or against the recall, it is disturbing how the Executive Board just arbitrarily changed the Bylaws. I'd have atleast liked to see it have gone to the membership for a vote.

 

[rajflyboy]

Thanks for proving that there were no charges.

Omaha is not a reason to recall anyone. No one said WE ARE going to Omaha period. That never happened.

and there goes any charge against this person

This had nothing to do with Omaha.

 

[OPECJet]

The charges were explained. They have to do with a certain event in Omaha..

Whether your for or against the recall, it is disturbing how the Executive Board just arbitrarily changed the Bylaws. I'd have atleast liked to see it have gone to the membership for a vote.

The EBoard changes the bylaws when they see fit. Remember the complaining about furloughee message board access and the response that "it's in the bylaws"? No matter what they said, the bylaws could have been changed as they saw fit. Probably were but I don't have the inclination to go back and look.

In that case, they saw fit to take their attorney's advice to lock us out of it for fear we'd say something that could be used against NJASAP in the event they got sued over an illegal job action.

 

[CA1900]

No one said WE ARE going to Omaha period. That never happened.

Look at the January 13th 411. How are you interpreting that to say anything other than exactly what it says in plain English?

 

[BentOver]

No matter if you were in favor of his recall or not.. ( I was, a bull in a China shop comes to mind when I hear of how he conducted business)..

The way they change bylaws to suite them is alarming... And OPEC is right about the message board access. Then again S.T. let the cat of the bag on why we were really barred. Of course it wasn't a real suprise.

 

[rajflyboy]

Look at the January 13th 411. How are you interpreting that to say anything other than exactly what it says in plain English?

i don't see any prep going on for an Omaha picket? do you?

 

[CA1900]

The message says, "NJASAP will host a picketing event in Omaha."

You said, "No one said WE ARE going to Omaha period. That never happened."

How are you coming to that conclusion? They did say it. The fact that it was canceled doesn't change that.

 

[BentOver]

i don't see any prep going on for an Omaha picket? do you?

Everyone and their mother saw the planning of an Omaha picket... Do you even work for Netjets?

 

[imacdog]

Raj lives on Planet Clueless. This has been proven time and time again.

 

[Hawkered]

Or Planet Lupee!

 

[Hogprint]

The message says, "NJASAP will host a picketing event in Omaha."

You said, "No one said WE ARE going to Omaha period. That never happened."

How are you coming to that conclusion? They did say it. The fact that it was canceled doesn't change that.

And when you say "They" did it, I do believe it was ALL the eboard, no? The Rogue 4 had a chance to voice their opinions but voted in the affirmative.

 

[BentOver]

For all intensive purposes, their view was they were voting on whether or not to research the possibilities of a picket.

NOT to announce a picket was going to occur like what happened...

Which from what I understand was just the final straw, in a series of events over the last couple years, that the 4 EBoard members witnessed that made them believe Luthi was not the right person for the job.

It's amazing how on one side you have Luthi and his buds, who see the state of the company one way. Then you have the 4 who don't believe Luthi and see a different picture of how the company is handling business..

Based on Luthi's public statements and past Union leadership, I tend to believe he is playing the typical "scare the troops into conformity" rather than presenting the information in it's entirety...

From Luthi it's all negative company this and that... yet not one word about any of the positive changes occurring at NJA that may bring them back to greatness.

 

[jonjuan]

For all intensive purposes,

LOL- Like saying "supposively" LOL.....

 

[jetlag7]

Look at the January 13th 411. How are you interpreting that to say anything other than exactly what it says in plain English?

Wait a minute.... what are you still doing in here talking about this?? Last week I was admonished by you for doing the same thing...

Whether you're for or against the recall, this is a stupid place to be having this discussion.

 

[CA1900]

As BentOver rightly pointed out, the furloughees are locked out of any meaningful discussions on our board. Since it was his thread, I didn't see any harm in correcting the gross misinformation raj posted.


It's still a stupid place to talk about it, though.

 

[Praetorian]

As BentOver rightly pointed out, the furloughees are locked out of any meaningful discussions on our board. Since it was his thread, I didn't see any harm in correcting the gross misinformation raj posted.


It's still a stupid place to talk about it, though.

What's the diff? Your management also reads the union message board.

 

[OPECJet]

What's the diff? Your management also reads the union message board.

How true. The rest of the world doesn't, however. If Luthi and Co hadn't been, and continue to be complete tools about the msg board we could discuss it there.

 

[rajflyboy]

I don't see a picket event in the process in Omaha. Haven't heard squat about it since that 411.

Obviously there is NO picket.

Luthi did nothing wrong.

and yes by the way... if you are afraid of an omaha picket I'd hate to see what happens when negotiations start next year. Pitty the fool.

The recall had nothing to do with a picket. Its all about power trips and ego's.

Stop the insanity.

 

[rajflyboy]

As BentOver rightly pointed out, the furloughees are locked out of any meaningful discussions on our board. Since it was his thread, I didn't see any harm in correcting the gross misinformation raj posted.


It's still a stupid place to talk about it, though.

Misinformation??

How is announcing a picket going to be a "CHARGE" against an individual for recall? Explain this to me? Ludicris

Where is the picket? Tell me?

its you that follows sheep without a direction.

 

[CA1900]

Easy, killer.

You said, "Nobody said we are going to Omaha period. That never happened."

That is misinformation, because he DID say it. I know we didn't actually do it. That wasn't the point. Your claim that nobody said we were going to picket Omaha is simply not accurate.

 

[rajflyboy]

Easy, killer.

You said, "Nobody said we are going to Omaha period. That never happened."

That is misinformation, because he DID say it. I know we didn't actually do it. That wasn't the point. Your claim that nobody said we were going to picket Omaha is simply not accurate.

No worries

Luthi has a big lead against the recallers and will win his case against the recallers.

 

[BentOver]

No worries

Luthi has a big lead against the recallers and will win his case against the recallers.

Yeah becasue there won't be a recall... Luthi and his 4 other buddies got the Bylaws changed so that now there has to be a vote on whether the Pres. should face a recall vote.

Now tell me how he'd face a recall vote(from the membership) when the very same people who saved his bacon by changing the Bylaws will be the ones voting on whether or not he should be charged with any violations.

The petition turnout (after 2/3rds of the alotted time) almost equalled the total amount of votes cast that got Luthi in. ( I suppose since everything was so good back then, the NJASAP president election was an afterthought?) That's total votes, not just votes for Luthi.

For or against him, the membership should have atleast had their day to decide.

My opinion is the the recall would have failed anyways. I doubt much more than 50% of the whole membership would have voted, let alone getting 50% recall support form the whole group.

In the end I suppose the whole thing atleast got Luthi's attention that he should change the way he handles business affairs. I've noticed he hasn't made a mockery of every decision management makes. He cried foul when changes were made to Fiji, lack of new a/c, Wifi not being installed.. Now that all those changes are taking place, not one word about them.

He needs to stop listening to disgruntled EX-employees

 

[rajflyboy]

Yeah becasue there won't be a recall... Luthi and his 4 other buddies got the Bylaws changed so that now there has to be a vote on whether the Pres. should face a recall vote.

Now tell me how he'd face a recall vote(from the membership) when the very same people who saved his bacon by changing the Bylaws will be the ones voting on whether or not he should be charged with any violations.

The petition turnout (after 2/3rds of the alotted time) almost equalled the total amount of votes cast that got Luthi in. ( I suppose since everything was so good back then, the NJASAP president election was an afterthought?) That's total votes, not just votes for Luthi.

For or against him, the membership should have atleast had their day to decide.

My opinion is the the recall would have failed anyways. I doubt much more than 50% of the whole membership would have voted, let alone getting 50% recall support form the whole group.

In the end I suppose the whole thing atleast got Luthi's attention that he should change the way he handles business affairs. I've noticed he hasn't made a mockery of every decision management makes. He cried foul when changes were made to Fiji, lack of new a/c, Wifi not being installed.. Now that all those changes are taking place, not one word about them.

He needs to stop listening to disgruntled EX-employees

Luthi needs to win. We need him for section 6 negotiations.

 

[BentOver]

Luthi needs to win. We need him for section 6 negotiations.

Need and want are two distinctly different things.. You want him... Nobody needs him... No one person is that important...Everyone is replaceable.

Example: Out of the 2500+ active pilots, there are some very very smart individuals. Many who have done this stuff before. Many who have done negotiations for things much more important than a Union contract. There are many others who could handle the task. Whether they want to be part of the goat rope is another story. I'd assume that those same smart people are also smart enough to stay far away.

 

[jetlag7]

Need and want are two distinctly different things.. You want him... Nobody needs him... No one person is that important...Everyone is replaceable.

Example: Out of the 2500+ active pilots, there are some very very smart individuals. Many who have done this stuff before. Many who have done negotiations for things much more important than a Union contract. There are many others who could handle the task. Whether they want to be part of the goat rope is another story. I'd assume that those same smart people are also smart enough to stay far away.

Considering the pathetic manner the recall has regressed into a character assassination hosted by a group who are still upset they lost the last election, I can't imaging why anyone would ever consider running for office or volunteering again.

On another note, Raj has a point. Even if you believe he's the anti-Christ, only a fool would refuse to acknowledge the fact he's an outstanding negotiator. Love him or despise him, I personally would prefer him sitting on our side of the table during Section 6.

 

[rajflyboy]

Considering the pathetic manner the recall has regressed into a character assassination hosted by a group who are still upset they lost the last election, I can't imaging why anyone would ever consider running for office or volunteering again.

On another note, Raj has a point. Even if you believe he's the anti-Christ, only a fool would refuse to acknowledge the fact he's an outstanding negotiator. Love him or despise him, I personally would prefer him sitting on our side of the table during Section 6.

Hell Yeah

 

[VGerect]

On another note, Raj has a point. Even if you believe he's the anti-Christ, only a fool would refuse to acknowledge the fact he's an outstanding negotiator.

Was Luthi part of the IBB negotiations ?

What has he successfully negotiated so far? He sure as hell hasn't been able to successfully negotiate anything in the post Santulli era.