King Air 90 or Lear 24

[psysicx]

Why not a cheyenne?

 

[Oregonbythesea]

Prestige and comfort is the real reason psysicx. And, thanks Rick, FSI is one that I was looking at and there is no way I would move into a KA without it. I am getting way too old to teach myself anymore close calls. Even if it is just for pleasure most of the time, I want to get back in one piece and that goes for the plane also.

 

[psysicx]

I didn't know Cheyennes were that bad.

 

[Flywrite]

Oregon took away his commercial drivers license for his job driving a log truck. I guess in their opinion it takes more to drive a truck than a multi engine aircraft.

That's probably why truck drivers make more than many pilots! It's Oregon's fault!!

Seriously though...if you were looking at a LR20 series you dont need too much room, how about the likes of a TBM700? Economical, speedy, lower insurance...the big downside would be the fact that the flight controls look like marital aids.

Good luck with your decision and welcome, both to the board and back to flying.

 

[Oregonbythesea]

I think you got my chat wrong. I don't mean to imply that there is anything wrong with a Cheyenne. I am sure it is a fine aircraft. I just wanted something with enough seats for the grandkids along with the potty that comes in very handy on the longer trips. Thanks Flywrite. This is a very nice board for all those interested in traveling higher than the roadway. I am glad I found it.

 

[starvingcfi]

The cost factor can be eliminated. Would that change your mind?

Cost, more than anything but, it is definitely something for anyone to look at who wants turbo props and safety all in one package. I would have to wait another year for that price range and of course, that is too long.

wait. so which one is it? you can afford to purchase/operate/insure a lear but not a pilatus?

 

[Oregonbythesea]

I can purchase a usable KA for 600K. I have never seen a Pilatus for anywhere near that price. The difference between the two would mean that I would have to wait another year. It isn't worth the wait when I can maybe enjoy the KA enough that I might not ever upgrade to a jet. Money in the short term is a factor, not in the long term.

 

[Peanut gallery]

King Air 90

Excellent choice, The PA31T leaves a lot to be desired in terms of the heater and size of seats. If you can afford a Beech it is the way to go.

Just my .02

 

[Diesel]

I'm currently running a king air B-90 with a converted engine package. Sure it's an older king air but you can pick one up cheap and the engine package was a good deal. Plus no more hot sections and fuel nozzels. 68k a side that i don't have to pay anymore.

Made it down to florida in 3.5hrs from northern Jersey. 247kts at FL250.

Now i'm just working at installing XMWX on the tablets in the cockpit to give me something to do on the way.

I've got a friend of mine selling a A-90 with the 750hp engines for a very good price. My guess is less than 600k with 240's speed. Not going to see that till you get to the C-90A's and B's I used to fly.

 

[Oregonbythesea]

Good 2cents worth. Diesel, CDL's are good too. I keep mine up, never know when it will come in handy. Given a choice though, I prefer charts to maps.

 

[Diesel]

Yeah i forgot to add that the 247 is the true airspeed. I allways seem to have a headwind going down to florida and then a day later coming back. Stupid wind.

I'm really getting used to using the EFB. I'm just trying to hook it all up so it works nicely in the cockpit.

You can't beat a king air. They are built like tanks. Check out www.lonestarpropjets.com for some mod's. The one we're flying has a really sweet mod that is in the experimental stage right now. Hopefully going to have it stc'd by the end of novemeber.

 

[Oregonbythesea]

Diesel, I have been reading their info for a couple months now and like their product. That is why I feel a high engine time plane is a great deal. I just need to get a good safe year out of the engines on the one I buy. I figure I can upgrade engines first and then the panel. One thing at a time at this point though. Plane first. Whoops, smoked salmon first. I need to tend to the important stuff quickly. Thanks all for all the great info. It all helped me to make a better decision.

 

[Diesel]

Actually the plane that you buy the engines on it can be swaped out for upgraded engines and the core's, hub, prop's and everything else sold back. I can't remember what the price was but it took quite a bit off of the conversion price.

My buddy is looking to sell his A-90 that's converted. I also know of a B-90 that's got an amazing panel that's converted for good money too.

A couple of months ago I watched something be done to a walter that you could never let a pratt do. The mechanic was starting and stoping the engine about 10-15 times trying to get it to hot start as fast as it would spool down he was lighting it off again. That was quite an experiment. It wouldn't do it. But that is the way the tech knew the FCU was set right. Crazy just crazy.

 

[seethru]

One of the biggest hangups I've had with the King Air 90 series is the airspeed. As mentioned above, you're getting about 245 KTAS. I do 220 KTAS in our 414. I think that the king air 90 is just too expensive for that small amount of improvement in airspeed.

We've been looking at the Cessna 441. Larger cabin and fast (300 KTAS) compared to the KA.

My $.02 worth.

 

[Snakum]

you can afford to purchase/operate/insure a lear but not a pilatus?

Uhhh ... have you taken a look at the initial aquisition costs of a PC-12, or even a TBM?

Used, you can still buy a couple older model Lears for that kind of money. New, the PC-12 price is probably around four mill by now, or more. When you're talking about big numbers like this, it's easy for us regular folks to forget that there is a WHOLE lot of jack between $1,000,000 and $4,000,000. And even considering the difference in operating and maintenance costs, it's going to take a LONG time to save $3,000,000. :smash:


Minh

 

[Snakum]

One of the biggest hangups I've had with the King Air 90 series is the airspeed. As mentioned above, you're getting about 245 KTAS. I do 220 KTAS in our 414. I think that the king air 90 is just too expensive for that small amount of improvement in airspeed.

We've been looking at the Cessna 441. Larger cabin and fast (300 KTAS) compared to the KA.

I've ridden up front in, but not flown a 414 and a 441. I don't know what the actual numbers are, but it certainly feels a lot more roomy than a B200. It also feels much easier to get in and out as a pax. Not sure what 50 knots (441 v.s. B90) is going to do for you over the kind of legs these airplanes usually fly, but it sounds pretty good. :laugh:

How are the 4-series on hourly costs? On maintenance $$ ? Resale value?

Minh

 

[seethru]

I've ridden up front in, but not flown a 414 and a 441. I don't know what the actual numbers are, but it certainly feels a lot more roomy than a B200. It also feels much easier to get in and out as a pax. Not sure what 50 knots (441 v.s. B90) is going to do for you over the kind of legs these airplanes usually fly, but it sounds pretty good. :laugh:

How are the 4-series on hourly costs? On maintenance $$ ? Resale value?

Minh

I haven't been in a B200 myself, but I don't notice much difference in cabin size between a C90 and the 414. I believe our hourly costs are in the neighborhood of $475 - $550. Maintenance can vary depending on the condition of your machine. Ours has been away from the shops for a while (knock on wood). Resale is kind of up in the air with the wing spar related AD.

I don't know how the 441 and C90, or B200 for that matter, compare regarding operating costs, etc...

 

[Snakum]

To me, it kinda' seemed the 4-series were a lot easier to get in and out of up front, and there seemed to be more wiggle room. I'm 6'1" and about 210, and so I've had to develop an entry procedure on the B200. Sort of right leg first over the center pedestal to the floor, lean way left and snake (um) my way into the seat. I always knock the armrest down, too, somehow, and I have that to content with. I have to have both armrests up so I can move around, even though I don't think I'm too terribly fat.

On the 441 I just sort of crouched and walked up to the front, stepped over and down and sat. Seemed like I had more wiggle room. I dunno. I liked it.

What I really don't know is how the #&!! bigger guys get in and out of Lear 24s! I'd have to butter my hips to squeeze into that thing. :laugh:

That's a pretty good hourly ops cost, isn't it? Our 200 is $750+ per hour and TAS is a bit slower than the Conquest, evidently, as well. I've actully seen 300 kts on the GPS at FL260, but that is very rare. Usually closer to 260.

Thanks for the info. Very interesting.

Minh

 

[seethru]

That's a pretty good hourly ops cost, isn't it? Our 200 is $750+ per hour and TAS is a bit slower than the Conquest, evidently, as well. I've actully seen 300 kts on the GPS at FL260, but that is very rare. Usually closer to 260.

Thanks for the info. Very interesting.

Minh

Just so that we're clear - the 414 I fly is a piston twin, not a turbo-prop like the 441. I think it performs very well, for the cost, compared to the C90.

I know exactly what you're saying about tight flight decks. I peer into any Lear jet and wonder what size of shoe horn I would need to get my Ford Taurus frame into that executive mailing tube.

Clear skies.

 

[Almerick07]

Money not an issue? Go with a Lear; pay for FSI and someone who knows what the heck is going on up front with you. On the economic side of things go with a KA....any model. Pay for FSI and it is a very practical airplane to fly single pilot. Ive got quite a few hours in KA's and I must say Beechcraft hit a homerun with the KA series. But then again Lear's are hotrods....but you pay for them. One airplane I'm very impressed with is the TBM700, I dont know too much about them except from what I've heard but they are worth looking into. On another note I sure would love to be in your shoes....hope whatever you get works out for you.