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King Air 200 Questions

AV8R4

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Ok gents, my boss is buying a 200 and has asked me to gather some info for him. I could not think of a better place or a better group of guys and gals to ask these questions. This will be a company plane, operating Part 91 trips.

1. What are the salary ranges for B200 drivers in North Central Texas?

2. I know that this aircraft is operated single pilot under most circumstances. Would my boss be able to get a discount on insurance by operating with two crew members?

3. What costs are associated with the crew as far as currency in aircraft, flight safety, per diem, overnights, etc....? I am not familiar with the costs that are associated with having your own pilot/pilots so please spell it out for me.

I am a marketing guy who flys on the side so be gentle with your comments.
If I have written something that is out of line please forgive me. I know how these boards can get and all I am asking for is a little info to pass on to my boss.

Thanks in advance for your time and consideration!
 

Snakum

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Looking at your profile, and reading the post, it seems your situation is similar to mine. I'm an office geek who landed a golden part-time opportunity. Very lucky.

1) I'm in the SE, and around here an FO usually makes $150 - $200 per day, with $250 - $300 for left seat.

2) We could, but I don't actually know the percentages. I do know it wasn't enough to justify another FT salary. Unfortunately for me, the numbers didn't even wash. :bawling:

3) We get no per diem on overnights, just a day rate. Captain carries a company credit card for trip expenses. No formal limit on hotel and meals, but we are always conservative about such things. Meals average about $50 per pilot per day, and hotels from $70 - $100 per night, per pilot. No day rooms. We hang in the FBO as long as necessary if not on a scheduled overnight. No reason to add to expenses that might one day make owning the aircraft unprofitable. Simcom annually for Captains on the B200 and the B58. FOs get (very good and structured) OJT. Seems I heard $13K for B200 initial and $8K for the B58 initial. Recurrent would be 50-60% of that, wouldn't it? Someone here who's been recently would know the true numbers. I don't really know the current costs.

Dunno if any of this helps. Others here with more experience will have better info, however, keep in mind that salary/per diem numbers you read on FlightInfo are often wildly inflated, relative to real-world numbers in smaller towns. A couple grains of salt might be in order. :laugh:

Minh
 

Snakum

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Something else ...

I met someone locally once who had a dream gig, which started out similar to yours. He was a 300-hour PPL working for a company that bought a C90. They gave him a raise, paid for his IR/Comm/ME and made him the aircraft manager in addition to his normal duties, and always allowed him to take whatever time was needed to keep the aircraft squared away. He flew right seat and contracted Captains for the left. He said there are always guys around that are available and experienced in a King Air, and he never had a problem making a trip, even on short notice (24 hours). His boss told him that when he met the insurance mins he would be given the left-hand seat and training at Flight Safety if he wanted it. Not sure what he did when the time came. Probably still working his regular job and flying right seat. He seemed to prefer things the way they were.

I will now duck as the screaming begins ... but I would like to point out that he didn't fall out of the sky for no reason ... he wasn't taking a paying seat ...
Minh
 
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AV8R4

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Snakum

Thank you for the feedback. Believe it or not you have been a great help. I will add that I am the marketing director for my bosses company. I have not been offered a postion to fly nor to manage the aircraft. I am a private/instrument rated pilot who gets to fly once in a while when the checkbook tells me to. I don't understand how this is a dream gig or a golden opportunity for me. Fill me in please!!
 

AV8R4

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something to add

His boss told him that when he met the insurance mins he would be given the left-hand seat and training at Flight Safety if he wanted it.
I don't know how this works. If you have two pilots aboard an aircraft that only requires one pilot, how is the guy in the right seat logging time to meet insurance requirements? Please forgive my ignorance..
 

semperfido

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AV8R4 said:
Ok gents, my boss is buying a 200 and has asked me to gather some info for him. I could not think of a better place or a better group of guys and gals to ask these questions. This will be a company plane, operating Part 91 trips.

1. What are the salary ranges for B200 drivers in North Central Texas?

2. I know that this aircraft is operated single pilot under most circumstances. Would my boss be able to get a discount on insurance by operating with two crew members?

3. What costs are associated with the crew as far as currency in aircraft, flight safety, per diem, overnights, etc....? I am not familiar with the costs that are associated with having your own pilot/pilots so please spell it out for me.

I am a marketing guy who flys on the side so be gentle with your comments.
If I have written something that is out of line please forgive me. I know how these boards can get and all I am asking for is a little info to pass on to my boss.

Thanks in advance for your time and consideration!
1. If you have a chief pilot that manages all aspects of a single turbo-prop operation I would expect him/her to be paid comensurate with experience. Somewhere in the range 55-75K. Any first class, top-level operation would operate with two fully trained pilots (Call FSI for KA200 cost, Initial & recurrent at least every year). The 2nd pilot could have less experience, but should still get the same level of re-current training. That position should be paid commensurate with experience as well. Probably in the 28-38k range. All expenses while travelling on Co business should be reimbursable. No per diem. 50-75 per day domestic for meals should be adequate depending on cities. Rental cars where needed. Hotels should be moderate (no Super 8). You should pay for there FAA medicals. If you require any kind of uniform you should provide an allowance. You should provide cell phones and allowance. The list goes on and on. To go cheap will set the wrong tone. You want a highly professional operation. Not a crappy, run on a shoestring operation. Do it right the first time around.:)
 

AV8R4

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Semperfido

Great response! Let me give you a scenario. Company plane, 3 day trips per week, no overnights. Is it neccesary to hire full time pilots or just use a contract pilot.
 

aroundtheblock

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It all comes down to what kind of operation you want. If you go with contract guys, then you have no one responsible to be available so the boss can use his $1.5 million toy. In the Houston area, day rate pilots left seat are $400/day, $300 right seat. I might be able to find a flight instructor to do it for cheaper, but the $100 extra for someone with experience is worth the extra safety. Most of the guys you find who can do contract work have a full time job, and at the last minute might have to cancel because their boss wants to go somewhere. Those that don't have a full time job are most likely not Flight Safety current, which most insurance companies require. As far as day rooms, it all depends on how long you have to sit around. If it is over 6 hours, we get a room, usually for about $40-$50. When the boss is paying $7000 to go from TX to FL, what's an extra $50 so the pilots are fresh?
 

semperfido

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it has been my experience that the Co plane gets used more than might have been initially thought. The owner won't want to go on personal trips on weekends? No family trips? Who will manage the day to day issues when airplane is not flying? When it is sitting in the hangar it will need attention. How many hours a yr projected? The average corp pilot flies 12-15 days a month (that is about 3 days a week). That has been how it has been my whole career so far. 300-400 hrs a yr. How long will these 3 days be? 12-14 hrs? Will he always be able to get a contract pilot? who will that person be? how comfortable will your owner be putting his life in the hands of an unknown? It is just that serious. All it takes is one bad judgement. Single pilot operations are not the best way to go. what if the one pilot vapor locks or becomes incapacitated?--it does happen- every year. food for thought. is it necessary you ask? that is a judgement call as well. i would say if he can afford a KA200 then he should operate it on a 1st class basis.
 

Snakum

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If you have two pilots aboard an aircraft that only requires one pilot, how is the guy in the right seat logging time to meet insurance requirements?
Sole manipulator for all legs flown. :)

The guy I spoke to considered it a golden opportunity because his goal was to fly full-time eventually, and he couldn't afford to quit his regular job to instruct or fly night freight (had a family to support), nor could he afford to buy multi time.

I consider my situation a golden opportunity because I'd like to have the option of flying full-time one day if I decide to do so, but I can't afford to quit my job to instruct or fly night freight, nor can I afford to buy multi time. In addition, I am learning a TON of stuff every single flight. Stuff I would not be exposed to while giving instruction. The Captains I fly with are all very knowledgeable, patient, and are comfortable enough with me and with their own abilities to really challenge me, to really take me out of my comfort zone.

So even if I never fly professionally, I will be a MUCH better pilot thanks to the experience and to the education I'm getting from these guys.

Minh
 

AV8R4

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Good Stuff

Ok how do you get two pilots to sit in the front when only one can log the time? I understand and agree that both should be there for safety reasons but who logs what?

DISREGARD THIS MESSAGE QUESTION ANSWERED ABOVE!
 
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semperfido

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you take turns flying. there are plenty of young guys (and maybe a few old ones :)) that would love to fly as 2nd pilot in a KA operation, if they are paid and treated well. many people started out that way. myself included.
 

AV8R4

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Ok

So you could realistically put a 300 hr. ME/COMM pilot in the right seat and he will not raise any eyebrows when he logs that PIC time for which he was sole manipulator of the controls???
 

semperfido

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AV8R4 said:
So you could realistically put a 300 hr. ME/COMM pilot in the right seat and he will not raise any eyebrows when he logs that PIC time for which he was sole manipulator of the controls???
You should have 2 FSI trained pilots in the cockpit. Whos eyebrows are we talking about? I thought you were a marketing guy. Do you want to fly for Fedex someday? If you want to fly it, then go to school on the airplane and then sit in the right seat for a while until you get some experience and quit worrying about PIC time.:)
 

AV8R4

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Flying the King Air

I have no plans to fly the aircraft but there are some CFIs on the field that might jump at the chance to sit right seat. I just wanted to make sure that I wouldn't be waisting their time. Thanks Semperfido and all of you guys that have provided helpful info. You have been a big help.
 

dhc8fo

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AV8R4 said:
So you could realistically put a 300 hr. ME/COMM pilot in the right seat and he will not raise any eyebrows when he logs that PIC time for which he was sole manipulator of the controls???
hahahaha....the airlines do it all the time now (well, they are logging SIC, but you get the idea) :laugh:
 

Kingairrick

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Your next call needs to be to your insurance agent. Run the different scenarios by hin and measure the responses. Your insurance will be much less operating with a full-time pilot as PIC. Also, my last King Air gig, I was able to get a $19K discount by operating with an SIC. SIC's are $200-$250 per day in my area, so it paid for itself, and the safety factor is immesurable.
 

AV8R4

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kingairrick

Thank you sir. That is good to know.
 

Snakum

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Also, my last King Air gig, I was able to get a $19K discount by operating with an SIC
IIRC our discount was a bit less than that, but balancing this against an average of $28K per year, including benefits, for a full-time FO, and then adding the cost of Simcom's B200 initial to it every year ... it is quite a bit cheaper to just pay the premium, in the minds of our owners.

That said, however, they are increasingly flying "FO Required" trips, which means the FO gets paid the daily rate, and isn't just along for the training and experience. :)


Minh
 
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