Kidney Stones

[bama*pilot]

Has anyone had or know anyone who has had kidney stones that is a pilot? Also how did this effect their medical? Thank you.

 

[Capt. X]

Has anyone had or know anyone who has had kidney stones that is a pilot? Also how did this effect their medical? Thank you.

My best friend who flies for a major has had them 3 times in 10 years. The first time he reported it and had to get an okay note from a Urologist, no problem. Since he has to check the box asking about Kidney Stones in the past he never reported the next two....He said it was no big deal...Of course the kidney stone pain was a big deal..:=)

 

[fly4ever]

bama*pilot,

Kidney stones are a disqualifying condition. If you know someone with the problem they need to be very discrete about how they handle it when renewing a medical. Getting some advice from AOPA medical or some other person or organization with airmen's medicals before declaring the condition would be a good idea. The above post may be accurate but I would still be careful.

Good Luck

 

[800Dog]

bama*pilot,

Kidney stones are a disqualifying condition. If you know someone with the problem they need to be very discrete about how they handle it when renewing a medical. Getting some advice from AOPA medical or some other person or organization with airmen's medicals before declaring the condition would be a good idea. The above post may be accurate but I would still be careful.

Good Luck

My Uncle had them and was out of flying for close to one year. Call the ALPA Doctors and talk to them.

 

[saabservant]

A cautionary tale....

Best bet for all: Drink a lot of water, keep your unine clear, and eat cranberries!

Giving birth to a large kidney stone is not a life highlight, believe me.
Had one in 1992 or so, Doctor thinks it is an infection, sticks a catheter up my UNIT to drain, wore it for two day, pulled it out(on my own), and out pops a rock-sized stone! Yayyyy!!

Get this: the insurance companies don't want the doctor to use anesthetic when inserting the catheter!! Kind of like working for nwa, where they won't even use the 'lube when screwing you!!

 

[thunderworm]

one of our pilot just lost his medical due to kidney stones. that why i don't drink the coffe among other reasons.

 

[treetop flyer]

I flew with a guy that had kidney stones and he had some issues keeping his medical. Can't remember the specifics but I recall him saying that the FAA Docs had a "___ strikes and you're out" rule. I have no idea if that is accurate but after listening to him tell me about passing the stones one thing is for sure...I'm drinking more water than I ever have!!

Best of luck to those dealing with this...

TF

 

[Occam's Razor]

I had a kidney stone start the ureter two-step in flight last year. It was "uncomfortable" during the approach and landing, and got progressively more painful after I deplaned.

I went to the ER, where the sight of an airline pilot, in uniform, doubled-over holding his side and moaning, got me immediate attention. It hurt so bad I was puking all over the examining room. The doctor grabbed by arm, and told me "hold still for 3-seconds so I can put you in the Magic Kingdom", then injected morphine.

It felt good.

They found a 6mm stone lodged in the ureter (between kidney and bladder) and set me up for a procedure where they stick a knitting needle up the (ahem) only open access and fished it out. I was asleep.

If it is your first experience with stones, you will get your medical back once they take a KUB x-ray and the radiologist states you are "stone free". Your AME can issue the First Class medical immediately based on that. You will then get another First Class certificate from Dr. Silberman, the FAA dude. You'll also get a letter that explains if you have them again, you are in deeper doo doo. You will NOT be required to have an x-ray done for future physicals.

Recovered stones are analyzed to determine their constituency. Some can be caused by people to take too much vitamin "C", and some can be caused by other specific practices...but the #1 cause is typically just not enough water.

ALPA Aeromedical held my hand the whole way, so the process was administratively painless. They tell me that a second episode could lead to two outcomes:

1. Restricted medical. Would require a KUB x-ray every 6-months in conjunction with my physical. Any detected stones would have to be "less than 2mm" and I'd be grounded until they passed. With a history of a "greater than 2mm" stone, this option is unlikely.

2. Disqualification. If you're a stone factory, they won't let you fly.

 

[FlyAuburn]

Has anyone had or know anyone who has had kidney stones that is a pilot? Also how did this effect their medical? Thank you.

I had a student with severe pain during a lesson. I don't wish that on anyone, unless you're a Bama fan. Just kidding. "Fear the thumb" - couldn't resist.

 

[SF3CA]

I had a 8mm stone about 3 years ago. Here is the deal. You cannot fly with retained stones. You have to be stone free. The Faa does not care about the first stone. After that, it is up to the faa on a case by case basis. ALPA told me that no one had ever been denied a medical if they could prove they would remain stone free. Some types of stones are more frequent than others. Here is the catch, after your first stone, your medical has to be approved by OKC. If they want too, they can make your medical process hell. The more stones you have, the harder they are going to look at you. For Captains, going thru this every six months gets old.

So here is the way I feel about it. After your first stone, drink lots of water and if you have another stone, try to pass it on your own so that you are not "diagnosed" with another stone.

PM me if you have any questions,

SF3CA

 

[GCAP]

http://www.aviationmedicine.com/art...layArticle&articleID=49&navID=67&contentID=67

 

[skiutah]

I myself have had 3 I reported the first one during my first military flight physical. I had 2 more during the military. . . don't report it if you can. Don't go to the Dr. if you can SWEAT it out, PAINFUL. Just get a lot of perscription drugs and fight it.

 

[MsFan]

Buddy of mine had it happen while on a layover in Anchorage about six weeks ago. Second one he's had, first while with his airline. Went through surgery twice, accompanied by the assorted accessories left hanging out of him, and still hasn't gotten his medical back. Even though he's symptom free, the x-ray shows one teency-weency little stone in his kidney. Until he passes that, he's grounded. The doctors basically said "Some guys pass it in 6 days, some it takes 6 months. Good luck to you, have a nice day. Call us when you pass it." He's still waiting to pass it. He's wishing it would have happened while he was at home so he could have chewed on a knotted rope and passed it himself instead of while on a layover.

 

[LearLove]

A "friend" in my neck of the woods who retired from AA a few years back had them twice. I short he called in sick or took time off for medical reasons (not real clear on that part) passed them and went back to work without telling the "fuzz" - what OKC knows won't hurt them he says.

 

[GuppyWN]

Holy crap Batman. How do you guys know it's a stone? Just hurts like the mother of all pain? Starts dull and crescendos as you pass it?

I've never been there and I'm sorry if I'm making you relive it but I'd like to know ahead of time so if my pecker explodes I can at least know what happened.

Waterboy

 

[acarpe3448]

I have had around 50 stones in the past 10 years. Most of the time they have been calcium stones out of the left kidney! The first stone put me on my butt in the er! Pain was unreal! After that when I got one I would double up on extra strength tylenol and drink lots of water! If you go to the er, you'll get the IVP before pain meds! I guess a lot of people come in faking stones! I had one massive stone stuck for around a month, and had it surgicaly removed. I had lithotripsy another times. The rest of the times, I did not know one was coming until the last hour or so! I never reported it! I am able to control my pain with just tylenol, and have never missed a trip! I am sure glad I was on the ground when the first one hit!

 

[Occam's Razor]

Holy crap Batman. How do you guys know it's a stone? Just hurts like the mother of all pain? Starts dull and crescendos as you pass it?

Remember that scene in the movie "Alien" when the creature popped out of the guy's chest? Mine felt like that...only worse.

Actually, it started out as a sharp pain that ebbed, then cycled. Each cycle got worse. The yucky part is it never ends until that rascal pops into the bladder. The pain comes from the dilated ureter. The tissue isn't used to it and it goes to DEFCON 1 when the stone stretches it out.

For me the pain was higher up (in location) than I thought it would be.

I never felt the 4 other mini me stones pass. I caught them in the nifty little strainer they give you at the urologist's office. They looked like tiny nuggets, were hard to the touch, and tasted like rock salt. <-- That's a joke, Magnum!...don't eat them!

 

[radarlove]

A combination of potassium and magnesium (standard supplement format) have a remarkable effect on future stones.

From the web:

Potassium magnesium citrate is a combination available over the counter, which is proving to be very beneficial in preventing kidney stones and even a better option than the more commonly used potassium-only formulations. In one study, it reduced the risk for kidney stone recurrence by 85%.


Potassium citrate (K-Lyte, Polycitra-K, Urocit-K) elevates citrate levels in the urine and reduces calcium excretion and recurrence of stones regardless of the cause of hypocitruria. It is given as a sole treatment to people with normal urine calcium levels. Between 70% and 75% of patients with recurrent stones have experienced remission with potassium citrate therapy. Magnesium citrate (Citroma, Citro-Nesia) may be useful for people who develop calcium stones from impaired intestinal absorption due to small bowel disease.

 

[AppBrookie]

I had one on a layover a few years ago, I did not know a human could tolerate so much pain. Once you are in the club, you are highly motivated to drink water till you float! Kudos to ALPA Aeromedical, they made several years of dues worthwhile. I passed the first in the ER but the x-ray showed that I had 3 more, so the next week they blasted me, I passed the next 3 over a 4 day period(worse pain than #1). All total, I was back flying in 21/2 weeks thanks to the Docs in Denver. From talking around w/ other "Stone Survivors", I think that I will try my best to not let them know in OKC.
My Prays are with you if you have one!!

 

[SkiFishFly]

I'm convinced.

I never want to experience one of these. I'm going to start drinking more water and go find some potassium magnesium supplements.

Good info. Thanks to all who have posted.

 

[Iflewjetz]

I had one a few years ago. We had some friends over for dinner and I winced through some pain. It got worse and after they left, my wife and I were standing in the garage waving. I fell on my knees and yelled what must have sounded like a dinosaur. I had never felt that kind of pain. It felt like Mike Tyson was punching the he11 out of my lower left back and George Foreman was squeezing the $hit out of my left testicle. I did lithotrypsy about 4 times and it was too big to break up.
I finally had to go to other options, surgery because I had burned up all my vacation and sick leave. That was pretty painful. Poking a tube directly into my kidney while I was awake and the drugs wearing off.
ALPA was great when I was stone free and I had my medical in a couple of weeks.
Drink your water.

 

[SLOTH]

Some of you guys toughing it out reminds me of the time when I had one... OUCH! My doctor told me that the kidney is very sensitive to blockage, and will seize function all together if the blackage remains for a long time (ie large stone). Toughing it out may not be the best option if you desire to keep 2 kidneys. Needless to say I drink water like it's going out of style, and have reduced softdrink, coffee, etc. intake dramatically. Besides all the kidney benefits, my weight control has been much better as well.

 

[ELVISP]

You guys are killing me with these stories. I had to slam a water just in case!

 

[Big Dog]

Women who have had kidney stones say it's a toss up as to what is worse, kidney stones or child birth. There is no other pain quite like waking up from anesthesia and finding a wire hanging out of your member. The other end is tied to a stint keeping your ureter open. Those were the longest 3 days of my life.
In short, drink plenty of water, avoid caffeine as much as possible & consume animal protein in moderation.

 

[Rabble]

I don't mean to seem dishonest, but if you go to the emergency room with a random kidney stone, you pass it, the urologist subsequently gives you the green-light... then why not just chalk it up to "don't ask - don't tell"?

How would FAA Aeromedical ever find out about the episode if you don't self-disclose?

 

[erj-145mech]

How would FAA Aeromedical ever find out about the episode if you don't self-disclose?

Because you would be falsifying a federal document when you applied for your next medical?

Do you pad your logbook also? "Well, if flew .9, but I'll just make it a 1.9 in the log." No difference.

 

[HighSpeedClimb]

Individuals with recurrent episodes of kidney stones are required to present information to the FAA that they are free of stones before returning to aviation duties. This is a recent change in FAA policy effective September 2003. Recurrent episodes generally require a 24 hour urine analysis as well.
For those pilots/controllers who have retained stones that do not pass, the FAA will consider granting a waiver if their physician can affirm that the stone appears stable and is unlikely to pass spontaneously. Stones greater than 2 mm in size or those located in the upper or mid calyces are less likely to receive waivers. The hazard is that a retained stone may pass during flight and compromise flying safety.
A recent change in the Guide to Aviation Medical Examiners indicates that individuals with a history of retained stones may not be cleared to return to flight duties by their AMEs after documenting they are stone free. Instead, authorization must be obtained from the FAA Aeromedical Certification Division (AMCD) or the Regional Flight Surgeon.
For the first episode of a stone, the FAA will not generally require follow-up reports from the pilot or controller's personal physician on subsequent FAA medical examinations. Those with a history of recurrent or retained stones should expect to be required to submit these reports for several years at the time of their FAA medical examinations.

 

[Champ42272]

Had my first (and hopefully last) kidney stone on Sep 1, 2007. It was 3mm and the most painful thing I have ever gone through. Passed it in in the ER in less than 3 hours (I know how lucky I am).

I just wanted to comment that I have to agree with Occam's Razor input about Vitamin C. This is the only dietary different thing I have done in the last 3-6 months and will never take additional Vitamin C again.

At almost 52, the excess Vitamin C argument strikes a chord with me, I suspect it is the culprit in my case.

Just my opinion, I could be wrong.

Champ 42272