Kelly: SWA costs too high

[Flyer1015]

deleted

 

[Flyer1015]

If i were SWA labor, before GK comes asking for a paycut...maybe you should ask him the total cost of the "bags fly free" campaign. Total cost meaning: advertising plus lost revenue. Side note: I would miss the ads because they are very entertaining to watch!

Delta, UAL, and etc are making millions charging for bags. High value customers love it because they no longer have to subsidize the leisure travelers 4 checked bags full of snorkel gear going to Hawaii! If the SWA passengers complain...a new marketing campaign idea. "You are free to ship your bags on FedEx." Any guess what that would cost them?

Although entertaining, I don't see the "bags fly free" program dissuading the legacy carriers to discontinue their a la carte programs. If GK were smart, he would not come after labor in an effort to subsidize his marketing program. He would be better off focusing on revenue management. JMO!

Bags fly free is a misnomer. The passengers all pay, collectively, on SWA. For any city routing, I've always found Spirit to be cheaper, because they take out snacks/drinks/bags out of the base fare. SWA is one of the most expensive airlines for booking today. There were times SWA had fares of 49-69 one way but those are gone.

 

[LandGreen]

We have actually gained over 1-2 % of the market share because of the bags fly free. I don't what the number trade off is though.

hmmm...you may be right...but i gotta see an independent source to believe it. certainly wouldn't believe it if it came on SWA letterhead! LOL!

hey, I am on your side. Did you not notice that your fearless leader just began a campaign here: Management of Labor Expectations 101. Next step is the paycut to remain competitive with the "new" legacy carriers.

 

[BillJBrake]

Bags fly free is a misnomer. The passengers all pay, collectively, on SWA. For any city routing, I've always found Spirit to be cheaper, because they take out snacks/drinks/bags out of the base fare. SWA is one of the most expensive airlines for booking today. There were times SWA had fares of 49-69 one way but those are gone.

Yup. Rarely is SWA the cheapest on most city parings I've looked at. One of the things (in my opinion) is their "cult-like" following. By only being able to book/view flights at SWA.com, often people don't even see the competitive fares. Of the SWA "die-hards" i know, most of them just go to SWA.com, book the flight, then when they claim how much $ it was "waah I paid $500 to get to Vegas" I ask "did you look at USAir or Delta or UAL" they'll say "no, I just went on SWA.com, they're always the cheapest. plus I don't have to pay for bags" then I'll show them a far on DAL for $210 ($250 with bag fees!). Ah well.

On another note, who didn't see this coming? This industry is so cyclical, you can't have one of the highest paid pilot groups, flying a plane with 1/2-1/3 the capacity of the top end planes at other airlines, with lots of CSR, no bag fees, etc, and expect you'll stay ahead of the competitors.

Look at PHL, seems like USAir gave SWA a good 'ol whoopin there, or are the massive reductions there just coincidence?

 

[nordo_2]

The consumer only cares about the cheapest ticket possible. There is no brand loyalty.

All airlines are one commodity. Airline pilots have almost no direct customer contact.

 

[whatitdoing?]

Just out of curiosity, what does SW offer on their flights? DirectTV or Wifi? Do you guys have loyalty credit cards or frequent flyer accounts? Lieflat seats on transcons? I'm not bashing or flaming, just don't know the answer.

 

[nordo_2]

The best any one can hope for in this business, is being lucky enough to be with whom ever is the “Hot” carrier for the moment. And riding it out with as much senority, to buttress against the fall.

 

[767/757]

The best any one can hope for in this business, is being lucky enough to be with whom ever is the “Hot” carrier for the moment. And riding it out with as much senority, to buttress against the fall.

What this guy said!

 

[waveflyer]

Iow- after two decades of legacies complaining about swa undercutting them- they've now been undercutting us for 10 years-
Instead of throwing stones- we all need to unify and decide as a profession if swa rates should be the norm and get them there- or if usair current rates should be the norm. If another carrier doesn't match us and alleviate the competitive burden- we might have to come down- which is not financially good for any pilot-

None of us operate in a void-
Fix#1- usapa needs to stop the temper tantrum
#2-100: I'll let you guys debate

 

[OurMoney1]

Airline evolution.

Nothing new.

Hardly the end of SWA.

 

[whatitdoing?]

The best any one can hope for in this business, is being lucky enough to be with whom ever is the “Hot” carrier for the moment. And riding it out with as much senority, to buttress against the fall.

Everyone mocks and laughs at United, but I'm beginning to see a money making machine. In a few years, I think United will be the hot place to be. Especially if we get a good contract, it'll be hard to get an interview. With the upcoming movement and retirements, this will be the place to be. SW and Kelly are starting to feel the heat and they're looking around to make it run better and make more money for investors. But eventually, something has to give and that's usually employee wages. Also, SW will change the guard over time and that, unfortunately, will change SW's culture. In 5 or so years, it'll be a different place. Then again...2012 is coming and the Mayan calendar ends....so it's all over anyways.

 

[Whataburger]

Oh come on! You sound like the lead anchor on NBC Nightly News. The Delta and SWA pilots fly the same amount of hours. Some months the 777 guy flies more, some less (seasonal changes). But overall, when a 777 Captain flies 85 hours, and a SWA Captain flies 85 hours, it's the same. The main difference is that they 777 Captain can get 15 hours in ONE LEG (LAX to SYD), and you guys have to do 15 intra Texas legs to get the same.

The problem with the "productivity" remark is that overall as a group, there are more Delta pilots in training because there are multiple fleets. If a 767 Captain is awarded the 777, he may be out for 6 weeks doing the groundschool and sim, then awaiting IOE. SWA only has to do that once for initial IOE, then upgrade OE. The airlines don't have the same business plan, so you can't really compare them. And there are guys at Delta that only fly a couple different plane types in their career. He is just as "productive" as any SWA pilot, but nobody likes to bring that up.....



Bye Bye---General Lee

GENERAL CHEESE, How many block hours for you this year on the 767?

Would DAL have made money last year w/o charging for bags? Should your airline be in the "CARGO" section?

 

[General Lee]

GENERAL CHEESE, How many block hours for you this year on the 767?

Would DAL have made money last year w/o charging for bags? Should your airline be in the "CARGO" section?

GENERAL CHEESE....???? (say what? Oh-kay?)

I consistantly fly 80-85 hours a month. The last couple months have been closer to 80, and in the late Spring and into Summer I am closer to 90. So, I average about 85 a month. Throw in 4 weeks of vacation.

Delta made $952 million in bag fees last year, but ALSO paid down $2 billion in debt (last year alone). This year the first quarter had the Japan Earthquake/Tsunami, but in the second quarter Delta made $300 million profit, but also paid down $700 million in debt in that quarter alone. It's not only bag fees, it other fees, and also premium traffic and shrinking capacity. Many RJs have been parked, and currently a lot of the widebodies are out for mod changes (crew rest facilities, lie flat seats, AVOD, etc). Most of those widebodies will come back by the busy Summer season, adding even more revenue. Add 12 fare hikes that SWA had to go along with, along with fuel surcharges, and you get the picture. Also, Delta's fuel hedging was actually better than SWA's. They made money off of fuel last quarter. So, it's not just about the bag fees, it's about being a revenue generator and flying to places not a lot of other people fly to, and charging a lot. Cargo helps too. The airline that EVERYONE has to watch out for now is United IMO. They got a great partner in CAL route wise, have had a pretty easy time mixing the planes and paint jobs, and have attained SOC. The only thing they lack there now is a joint contract with their pilots, which unfortunatly makes them even more profitable until they finally cave in and pay their pilots a lot more, which they deserve.

As far as Cargo goes, Delta had a 742 cargo operation in NWA at ANC. It was profitable for years, but the planes eventually got too old and mx costly. It would be very hard for anyone to go up against UPS and Fedex. DHL is trying, but their domestic ops has shrunk because of the tough fight against the other two. UPS and Fedex really do set the prices, and they are large enough to squeeze out the competition without really hurting each other. They decide what the rates will be (factoring in a profit), and you have to pay it or ship it via US Mail....


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[2ndGenPSA]

Bags fly free is a misnomer. The passengers all pay, collectively, on SWA. For any city routing, I've always found Spirit to be cheaper, because they take out snacks/drinks/bags out of the base fare. SWA is one of the most expensive airlines for booking today. There were times SWA had fares of 49-69 one way but those are gone.

EXACTLY!
Southwest now has a problem. They are not the cheapest to book on. So they DO rely on marketing and differences to attract customers. It's one reason SWA doesn't list their fares on the booking sites: they're not cheap!

For SWA to keep paying their people well (what they are worth), they will have to increase revenue. I.e. raise fares (can't), or charge for bags (piss people off and lose customers).

The cat's out of the bag. Here we go. This profession is and has been in a spiral.

 

[General Lee]

EXACTLY!
Southwest now has a problem. They are not the cheapest to book on. So they DO rely on marketing and differences to attract customers. It's one reason SWA doesn't list their fares on the booking sites: they're not cheap!

For SWA to keep paying their people well (what they are worth), they will have to increase revenue. I.e. raise fares (can't), or charge for bags (piss people off and lose customers).

The cat's out of the bag. Here we go. This profession is and has been in a spiral.

One of those bad mistakes was the stupid commercials that people can't get out of their heads. "The People's Court" commercials were just stooopid, with that fat Captain saying "Oh, Southwest would NEVER do that...." So, that may come back to haunt them if they introduce bag fees. That marketing guy over there should be fired. (oh wait, Southwest would NEVER do that.......)



Bye Bye---General Lee