Just How would APA do this?Eagle Jets?

[FightTheFuture]

More and more I've been reading about APA's interest in Eagle RJs. The majority of the Spring 2002 Flightline(APA's newsletter) dealt with scope and the flying done by Eagle RJs. Of course I don't blame them for being concerned about job security, but another APA publication posted in our Eagle crewroom implies that APA wants the RJ's and the flying together. In other words somehow getting rid of Eagle pilots altogether and doing our flying themselves.

My question is how would APA manage to takeover flying from Eagle pilots? Their is speculation that APA would offer a deal with Eagle Alpa to merge the seniority lists if Eagle would accept bottom of the list in lieu of DOH. That would allow AA furloughs to return to flying?

Any thoughts?

 

[Brother Francis]

Sounds like a variation on j4j.

 

[eaglefly]

I belive it is a generally mute situation. AMR will never go for the AA/Eagle pilot seniority merge.

The costs alone to retrain the AA furloughees to do the same job the Eagle pilots are doing would be staggering.

In the EXTREMELY unlikely event that the lists were merged, the Eagle MEC would have to agree. They would never agree to the furlough of half the pilot group to provide jobs for mainline.

It would be a violation of their feduciary responsibility to their membership.

 

[Brother Francis]

"...the Eagle MEC would have to agree. They would never agree to the furlough of half the pilot group to provide jobs for mainline."

That is what is happening at U with the WO's right now. I admit there are differences, but it's not without precedent. Agree or die.

The coroner made an understandable error in his initial assesment of the patient. Noone would have been able to conceive of something being forced up their butts with such force as to appear to have been shoved down their throats.

 

[TWA Dude]

It's my understanding that any such deal would be for subsequently delivered jets, perhaps just those >50 seats, so no additional Eagle furloughs would be needed. The APA is very serious about getting some kind of deal and AMR is very serious about never allowing mainline to fly Small Jets. I wouldn't expect anything to happen soon, if at all.

 

[surplus1]

I belive it is a generally mute situation. AMR will never go for the AA/Eagle pilot seniority merge.

You seem very certain of this and I hope you are right. However, "hope" guarantees nothing. APA is a fox in the hen house and Eagle pilots are the chickens. You'd better pay close attention or they will eat you alive. AMR cares only about the bucks and the APA can give them what they need. If the APA does, you'll be sold down the river in a heartbeat.

The costs alone to retrain the AA furloughees to do the same job the Eagle pilots are doing would be staggering.

Again, you may be making a huge mistake. The APA can give AMR the same costs anytime it wants to. If the need to do that to take your jobs, don't kid yourself, they will do it.

In the EXTREMELY unlikely event that the lists were merged, the Eagle MEC would have to agree. They would never agree to the furlough of half the pilot group to provide jobs for mainline.

Just look at what the ALG/PDT/PSA MEC's have "agreed" to do. Then look at what the MESA MEC is on the verge of "agreeing" to do. ALPA will feed your MEC more of the same kool aid it has been feeding them for years. ALPA's interest is to recruit the pilots of AA. They will sell the Eagle pilots without a second thought in order to do that. Your MEC will agree to what ALPA wants or ALPA will find a way to do it without them. Wake up man, the AA people are trying to take your jobs and YOUR union is helping them to do it.

It would be a violation of their feduciary responsibility to their membership.

If that thought wasn't so sad it would be funny. Tell me when ALPA has NOT violated its feduciary responsibility to its regional pilot members. They will do it again and you will be the victims.

ONLY Eagle pilots can defend the rights of Eagle pilots. No one in Washington is going to do that for you. Your union is defending your enemies. Its time you figured that out before it's too late to do anything about it.

ALPA has a policy and that policy is a political policy that is contrary to the best interest of regional airline pilots. They are following that policy ruthlessly at our expense, where ever and when ever they can get away with it. If you don't figure that out and very soon, they will take your jets and anything else they can and transfer it to the mainline. What YOU are left with is of no concern to them. They have already demonstrated this by their actions. Those actions speak much lowder than their meaningless rhetoric.

Either you fight for what is yours or it will no longer be yours. I'm not attacking you personally, but the idea that they will honor their feduciary responsibility to the Eagle pilots is about as far from reality as it is possible to get. Protect your interests, or you will lose them.

 

[eaglefly]

Many of you who are on the "outside" are arguing apples against oranges.

AA pilots are not ALPA. ALPA national can't assist them in the screwing of "lesser pilots", otherwise they already would have done so, a'la J4J. ALPA has only one dog in this fight - and this fight is not between APA and Eagle ALPA.

Eagle ALREADY has 140 RJ's and contractual rights to fly them. The APA knows the ONLY way to get the current Eagle RJ's is to accept the pilots with them. Previously (prior to the sick-out), the APA offered to fly the RJ's for what the Eagle pilots were flying them in a last ditch effort to get them on their property (even sent their guys over to the Eagle hanger in DFW to "asses" them) using Eagle F/A's, MTX and ramp. AMR wasn't interested.

AMR has repeatedly refused to even consider RJ's at mainline. Won't even discuss it.

Why ?

Because they are fully aware that if the AA pilots secure them it would be difficult, if not impossible to fend off mainline F/A's, mechanics and then rampers.

Now they've got an aircraft that is no longer financially competative with competators who are operating them on regional cost structures.

The APA and Eagle ALPA both are aware that any solution to the outsourcing/whipsawing problem MUST come from cooperation and agreement from both sides.

Personally, again AMR will never consider it.

Sorry Surplus, but your drooling Paranoia won't fly.

 

[AAflyer]

Eaglefly,

You beat me to the punch. Ole Surplus (aka chicken little) thinks the sky is falling over hear too.

I haven't heard a peep that APA wants to get rid of all Eagle pilots and insert ours. Every discussion has been to make one list. All pilots are AA pilots whether you are right seat in a EMJ-135 or a 777.

AMR is putting the screws to the whole pilot group here (eagle and AA). The only way to fight the DON is together, and the more Eagle guys I meet realize that. So do many of the pilots at mainline.

I have countered Surplus's responses, but have grown tired of it. He is wise in the way of the industry but for some reason has most pilots at the majors labled, it is too bad to be that cynical and bitter about some many people. I hope outside of work you are not so paranoid, that would be a horrible way to go through life.

The fight on the AMR property can only be won if we fight together, and both sides I think finally realize this.

Surplus, with all do respect please go spread the hate over in ATL and CVG, we don't want any over here. I sometimes wonder if YOU are not the fox dressed in sheeps clothing.

AAflyer

 

[Slim]

I agree that ALPA does not represent the AA pilot group (APA). However, ALPA does have political motivation to assist the APA in their efforts...they want AA pilots back in ALPA. Assistance rendered by ALPA to APA will be indirect should it happen.

Based upon my experiences at AMR, I agree that small jets won't be flown by mainline with AE F/As, MX, agents, etc, doing all the other work. Crandall said it would never happen, and I can't see the DON doing so.

Fly safe!

 

[surplus1]

I have countered Surplus's responses, but have grown tired of it. He is wise in the way of the industry but for some reason has most pilots at the majors labled, it is too bad to be that cynical and bitter about some many people. I hope outside of work you are not so paranoid, that would be a horrible way to go through life.

Let me help you to "counter" (I managed to miss that you had done so previously) by giving you some insight into my chicken little syndrome and paranoia.

1. Having been a "pilot at a major" before becoming a pilot at a regional, it is easy to label my peers. I know them well.

2. My comments are based on having read the APA's "proposal" for what you define as "working together". I congratulate the APA, the proposal is an excellent concept of how the politically schooled can hoodwink the naive into believing they're on your side.

In reality, the only thing that "proposal" would do, if implemented, is benefit AA pilots at the expense of Eagle pilots. Perhaps the "proposal" is clever enough to convince a majority of the Eagle pilots that AA pilots have seen the light and learned to love them. For thier sake, I hope the Eagle pilots will read it again and recognize it for what it is.

If it were put into effect there would indeed be only one list at AA (something that already exists), the Eagle jets would all be transferred to AA to be flown by AA pilots and whatever was left, if anything, would then fall to Eagle.

One list yes, with few if any Eagle pilots on it. Those few would undoubtedly be current Eagle jet captains who would gain the immesurable benefit of becoming First Officers on the same equipment they now fly as Captains. The generosity of the APA leaves me speechless. Such a deal!

The fight on the AMR property can only be won if we fight together, and both sides I think finally realize this.

I agree completely that the fight can only be won together. If that is truly the belief of the AA pilots, then surely the APA can come up with a proposal that makes togetherness a reality instead of the sham they have put on the table.

I'm sure the Eagle pilots can decide for themselves what they want. I'm also happy that I am not personally burdened by the prospect of having to consider signing on to such a proposal. To put it bluntly, the proposal is garbage.

Surplus, with all do respect please go spread the hate over in ATL and CVG, we don't want any over here. I sometimes wonder if YOU are not the fox dressed in sheeps clothing.

AAFlyer, I have no interest in spreading hate on your property or on mine. Neither am I afraid to call a spade a spade. I realize I could never have the wisdom of a mainline pilot. At the same time I don't mind telling you that there aren't too many mainline pilots or mainline union leaders that can play me for a sucker and dazzle me with BS.

At the risk of being branded as chicken little and accused of paranoia, I don't hesitate to tell you: The APA proposal, plain and simple, is predatory BS!

Want to shut me up and make your "togetherness" real? Then make the APA proposal real by including a no flush proviso that protects the Eagle pilots. Otherwise, it's not worth the paper its written on in my book.

PS. You are of course free to not read "my book" whenever you choose.

 

[surplus1]

Many of you who are on the "outside" are arguing apples against oranges.

AA pilots are not ALPA. ALPA national can't assist them in the screwing of "lesser pilots", otherwise they already would have done so, a'la J4J. ALPA has only one dog in this fight - and this fight is not between APA and Eagle ALPA.

Eagle ALREADY has 140 RJ's and contractual rights to fly them. The APA knows the ONLY way to get the current Eagle RJ's is to accept the pilots with them. Previously (prior to the sick-out), the APA offered to fly the RJ's for what the Eagle pilots were flying them in a last ditch effort to get them on their property (even sent their guys over to the Eagle hanger in DFW to "asses" them) using Eagle F/A's, MTX and ramp. AMR wasn't interested.

Yes sir, I am indeed an "outsider" in that I am not an Eagle pilot. However, whatever happens on your property will affect what happens on mine, and vice versa. Neither one of us may like that but it is nevertheless true. Therefore, I'm not as much on the outside as you infer.

I am very much aware of the differences between the APA and the ALPA. I am also aware of the ALPA's active efforts to first solicit enough "cards" to bring about an election (which failed and was abandoned) and second, the current effort to actively pursue a merger with the APA.

Whether you choose to believe it or not, ALPA will readily abandon the Eagle pilots if it has to choose between them and a merger with the APA. Meanwhile, ALPA will do nothing on behalf of Eagle that could alienate the APA. If you do not understand that I'm sorry for you.

I am also familiar with the APA proposal with respect to Eagle. You can see what I think of it by reading my comments to AAFlyer if you wish.

Your statement with regard to the APA's previous effort to place the 70-seat jets at AA is not fully accurate. The truth is that the APA and AMR reached an agreement (TA) on that. It was not rejected by AMR, it was rejected by a vote of the AA pilot group. I think that proves rather conclusively that if the deal is right, AMR would accept it. Apparently they thought that deal was "right" or a TA would not have been reached.

Yes, I'm an "outsider" but I'm not ignorant of public events that affect our industry. Neither am I ignorant of union politics.

I'm not asking you to accept my opinions. I'm certain you have the ability to choose for yourself. Here's hoping you'll see fit to protect your own interests, 'cause the only interests that current APA proposal protects are those of the AA pilots.

The APA and Eagle ALPA both are aware that any solution to the outsourcing/whipsawing problem MUST come from cooperation and agreement from both sides.

You'll get no argument from me with the idea that the pilot groups should work together. I'm all for cooperation and agreement but the devil is in the details. Just be careful what you "agree" to. You just had an excellent example of what "agreement" can mean at the USAir Gruop wholly owned subsidiaries. If the equivalent is what you want, I offer condolences.

I apologize for my paranoia. Someone said that when you know they're out to get you, paranoia may not be a bad idea. GWB seems to understand that with reference to Iraq. Perhaps you should take a second look with reference to the APA and for that matter, the ALPA as well. The career you have to save is your own.

 

[TWA Dude]

If I may expand on surplus1 a little. The way the APA and ALPA treated the ex-TWA pilots leaves me with little doubt about how unions are working for pilots: it's every man for himself, and it's JUST BUSINESS. ALPA wants more high dues-paying members so that's what they'll go for (at least until they're broken apart by the courts). APA wants to get its furloughees flying again so RJs is what it's going for. At least the APA BOD and the Eagle MEC are talking about possible deals.

I wish I could say that all pilots are looking out for each other but it just ain't the case. I and thousands of other pilots are unemployed now and it's dog-eat-dog out there. Most mainline pilots believe that RJs are a threat to their livilihoods so of course they're doing whatever they can to control them. If the result is fewer jobs for the Small Jet pilots than I'm sorry, but it ain't personal. I encourage everyone to fight for what's best for their careers, and good luck.

 

[surplus1]

I wish I could say that all pilots are looking out for each other but it just ain't the case. I and thousands of other pilots are unemployed now and it's dog-eat-dog out there. Most mainline pilots believe that RJs are a threat to their livilihoods so of course they're doing whatever they can to control them. If the result is fewer jobs for the Small Jet pilots than I'm sorry, but it ain't personal. I encourage everyone to fight for what's best for their careers, and good luck.

Unfortunately, a lot of what you say is true and reflected in the attitudes of mainline pilots. They have, IMO, created a conflict of interest where it was not necessary.

As long as mainline pilots maintain the attitude you express, i.e., "If the result is fewer jobs for the Small Jet pilots than I'm sorry, but it ain't personal" , you in fact make it personal. You see, that small jet pilot happens to be me. While I regret that you have lost your job, I'm not about to let you take my job and make it your replacement.

The idea that you think you should be able to do that and that I should agree that it's OK, creates the conflict between us. We could solve this problem by working together, but we can't seem to agree on what "working together" means.

From my perspective (speaking in generalities) the mainline pilot defines "working together" as: what's mine is mine and what's yours is mine. That will never fly with folks like me.

My group will indeed fight for our careers. We may lose the fight but by the time its over your group will surely know that you've been in a fight. This one will be no holds barred. Like you say, it's not personal, it's just business.

 

[eaglefly]

Surplus, lets gets some FACTS stright.

1.) You have not been and are not now privy to whats occuring at AA/Eagle with regard to outsourcing.

2.) You DO NOT have ANY idea of what is happening inside the APA MEC(neither do I).

3.) You DO NOT have ANY idea of what is happening inside the Eagle MEC.

4.) You DO NOT have ANY idea what has been discussed between our two MEC's.

You're making sweeping assumptions on things you HAVE READ IN THE MEDIA. You are then turning your assumptions into likelyhoods and/or certaintys based on YOUR interprtation of what you have read.

If you would reread my post , you'll note that my statements regarding AMR interest was in regard to ALL RJ's and was PRIOR to ANY RJ hitting Eagle property. Yes, AMR was willing to sacrifice the 70-seater at Eagle (two years after Eagle got jets). But it was IN EXCHANGE for Eagles ability to operate MANY more 50 seaters with less restrictions (which AMR requested - MORE RJ's at Eagle with LESS restrictions). AMR would not have placed 70-seaters at mainline but would have leased them out or sold them. Too expensive at mainline costs.

I assume this weekend you'll go to a football game and from the upper deck, angrily declare to those around you that you don't like what your team is saying in the huddle down on the field.

Most at Eagle see the light perfectly well. We are under NO illusion that the APA will represent the interests of its membership first. But the APA is aware that the pilots at Eagle have some contractual rights on this issue as well and a strong-arm takeover won't work.

breath deeply, clean the saliva off your keyboard and accept the fact that in this situation...........

...you have NO idea.

 

[surplus1]

Surplus, lets gets some FACTS stright.

1.) You have not been and are not now privy to whats occuring at AA/Eagle with regard to outsourcing.

2.) You DO NOT have ANY idea of what is happening inside the APA MEC(neither do I).

3.) You DO NOT have ANY idea of what is happening inside the Eagle MEC.

4.) You DO NOT have ANY idea what has been discussed between our two MEC's.

1. Almost everyone with any real knowledge of the industry and the internal workings of the ALPA is privy to what's occuring with regard to outsourcing, not only at AA/Eagle but everywhere else. It's really not the mystery you seem to think it is.

2. You are correct, I do not know what is happening inside the APA (which by the way has no MEC, its the BOD), I only know their public proposals. However, while I don't know just as you admit you don't know, I have no shortage of ideas.

3. Lot's of people have many ideas of what is happening inside the Eagle MEC. Those ideas are much more than innuendo. Remember, you're in ALPA and whether you know it or not, your representatives talk. Other people listen. In addition, your MEC has a history that is not exactly secret.

4. Wrong, I do have several ideas about what has been discussed between your two MEC's. Your MEC has made several of its "discussions" public. ALPA has issued press releases about it. Further, your MEC has exchanged ideas with other MEC's. A lot of "ideas" can be developed by listening.

Now what exactly is the axe that you have to grind with me? Are you upset because I think regional pilots should defend their rights? If that's your problem, you'll just have to live with it.

Are you upset because I think mainline pilot groups want to solve their own probems by taking from regional pilot groups? If that's your problem, tough. That's what I beleive and until I am shown otherwise, I'll continue to express my views. The evidence is there for everyone to judge. You go ahead and make your judgements, I have no problem with your opinions. If you can't deal with my opinions, then punt. Can't punt, then ignore me. I assure you I won't mind.

You're making sweeping assumptions on things you HAVE READ IN THE MEDIA. You are then turning your assumptions into likelyhoods and/or certaintys based on YOUR interprtation of what you have read.

You're entitled to your opinion my friend, but I think you are making a lot of assumptions yourself about what I read in the media or how I interpret it. The truth is I put very little credence in the media about anything. My opinions are based on personal experience, not media hype, not forum hype and not ALPA propaganda.

I assume this weekend you'll go to a football game and from the upper deck, angrily declare to those around you that you don't like what your team is saying in the huddle down on the field.

If you make that assumption, feel free to add it to the list of inaccurate assumptions that you have already made.

If you feel that my opinions with respect to the ALPA are erroneous presumptions, then go ahead and refute them. I think there is enough history and enough evidence to support my presumptions in that regard.

Most at Eagle see the light perfectly well. We are under NO illusion that the APA will represent the interests of its membership first. But the APA is aware that the pilots at Eagle have some contractual rights on this issue as well and a strong-arm takeover won't work.

I certainly hope your "assumptions" are correct. Time will tell.

It would be a violation of their feduciary responsibility to their membership.

Recognize that quote? It's what you wrote. I responded by saying "If that thought wasn't so sad it would be funny. Tell me when ALPA has NOT violated its feduciary responsibility to its regional pilot members. They will do it again and you will be the victims."

If you disagree, then why didn't you attempt to refute that. Come up with some times when ALPA hasn't done that. Make your case. Instead, you responded by telling me that my "drooling Paranoia won't fly." Surley you can do better than slurs? Give me some substance instead of simplistic rhetoric.

I have already said that the Eagle pilots could decide for themselves. I merely hoped that this time you would indeed see the light and not repeat the types of decisions that you have been duped, by ALPA, into making in the past and are now noted for. Instead of convincing me that you will not repeat your past mistakes you appear to be working overtime at proving that you just might. If I was not concerned in the past, you're giving me reasons why I should be in the future.

breath deeply, clean the saliva off your keyboard and accept the fact that in this situation........... you have NO idea.

There you go again. Do you have some sort of fixation with drool and saliva?

While you may disagree with me which again is your right and a right that I respect, the truth is I know quite a bit about "this situation". A great deal more than just having an idea and, at the very least, as much as you.

Again, I wish you and all the Eagle pilots well and sincerely hope that you will "see the light" in time to stop your "friends" in high places from screwing you more than they already have.

Just beware so that this time they don't kiss you and tell you how much they love you before they fork you. (Sorry about my bad spelling).

Regards

 

[skydiverdriver]

I really didn't mean what I said before. One list would make the sale of Eagle more difficult? Does that make any sense? Why would they sell a part of American? Of course it would make it impossible. That's the whole point silly.

 

[Publishers]

for sale

If AMR did one list, it would make the sale of Eagle harder if not impossible.

 

[seagle]

I believe that Eagle ALPA must move cautiously on this one. AMR once offered the CRJ's to APA as previously stated and we all know that history has a way of repeating itself! "Divide and Conquer" can once again come into play and let's be very honest here. If APA was offered the CRJ's and possibly all the ERJ's they would take them in a heart beat. And I really couldn't blame APA, they too must watch out for their pilot group. It is a very tenuous time at AMR and I hope both pilot groups (APA & ALPA) will work very closely together on this one and do RIGHT for both pilot groups. There are great possibilities for both pilot groups and I can only hope that greed stays out of the equation.

 

[trainerjet]

Therefore, I'm not as much on the outside as you infer.

The writer/speaker implies...(strongly suggests, insinuates)
The reader/listener infers.....(deduces, concludes)

 

[surplus1]

The writer/speaker implies...(strongly suggests, insinuates)
The reader/listener infers.....(deduces, concludes)

Thank you. You are correct. In this case the reader (eaglefly) both deduced and concluded, i.e., inferred.

Now that we agree, do you have anything constructive to contribute or do you simply wish to be petty?

 

[trainerjet]

Nope..that's pretty much it. To be petty. That's why I refrained from commenting further in my post. I wanted to give you the opportunity to make my point for me with a response. Which you did......beautifully.


Thank you, sir.

 

[surplus1]

Excellent! I relish repartee. Do go on...... priceless!

 

[eaglefly]

Sorry Surplus, but I have more knowledge than you think I do (you don't know me). Your "ideas" are yours and are based on bits and peices you put together. The Eagle ALPA MEC has MUCH more discussion and information that is NOT released, and by the way is comprised of members that were not in their respective offices a short one year ago.

I can't tell you about Comair (if thats who you fly for) and your knowledge of Eagle is WOEFULLY short of mine.

I have no beef with you. But you get on this board and represent to others that this and that are imminent regarding a pilot group you do not work for and that certain inevitabilities are likely.

Malarkey.

It is pointless to bang the gong with you. You believe what you want to believe. As far as Eagle goes, enjoy your view from the upper deck, it's as close as you'll get.

Hopefully, at least the hotdogs are good.

Good luck in your career.

 

[trainerjet]

Excellent! I relish repartee. Do go on...... priceless!

 

[surplus1]

Like they say .... a picture is worth a thousand words.

 

[surplus1]

Sorry Surplus, but I have more knowledge than you think I do (you don't know me). Your "ideas" are yours and are based on bits and peices you put together.
Good luck in your career.

Thanks for the good luck wishes. I apologize for being unable to articulate my views in a way that does not cause you personal distress.

You seem determined to make the discussion some sort of contest between you an me as to who knows more about what. I will happily concede that you know more about everything!

I'm not a guru or an expert on any of this and I don't pretend to be. This discussion is not about you and me. As individuals we are both of little importance, if any at all, in the scheme of things.

My only objective is to encourage all of us to think seriously about the issues and not allow ourselves to be smothered in the political propaganda from any side. Our careers are going to be affected by the eventual outcome, one way or the other, like it or not. As such, we need full situational awarness and not focus limited to parochial interests.

The issues are controversial and in most cases adversarial as well. It is only natural that many of us will have different opinions. I want to hear your opinions and I want to voice my opinions. I have no interest whatever in a personal dispute about who knows more about what. Frankly, that's a waste of time and a diversionary tactic.

So again, I apoligize for being unable to articulate my views in a way that pleases you. Nevertheless, my opinions are my own and I will continue to express them. I'm sorry you disagree.

You are correct, I don't know you. You also don't know me. Neither of those things is important from my perspective. I'm not interested in what you think of me, I am interested in what you think about the issues. Hopefully, you will express your views on the subject matter and stay away from attempting to make this a personal contest. I'm not competing with you and don't want to.

I wish only the best for you and all the Eagle pilots as well as regional pilots everywhere. This issue affects the entire industry. It is much bigger than Eagle or Comair (yes that's my airline) or any one of us. We're all in the same boat, but we're all rowing in different directions. That will get us nowhere.

Best regards.

 

[TWA Dude]

As long as mainline pilots maintain the attitude you express, i.e., "If the result is fewer jobs for the Small Jet pilots than I'm sorry, but it ain't personal" , you in fact make it personal.

Anytime a business moves in on another's turf is it personal? Lemme put it this way: every airline pilot wants as much growth at his/her airline as possible. That's all it is. Many mainline pilots view Small Jets as an attack on their way of life, and in today's economy that's true. Not the pilots; the jets!

You see, that small jet pilot happens to be me. While I regret that you have lost your job, I'm not about to let you take my job and make it your replacement.

Small Jets have already taken my job away but I don't blame the smaller carriers as if it were personal. In today's economy small jets are mostly profitable and mainline jets aren't, so management does what it has to and wants to do.

The idea that you think you should be able to do that and that I should agree that it's OK, creates the conflict between us. We could solve this problem by working together, but we can't seem to agree on what "working together" means.

Agreed. The biggest obstacle is that even if you and I agree chances are that Management won't.

From my perspective (speaking in generalities) the mainline pilot defines "working together" as: what's mine is mine and what's yours is mine. That will never fly with folks like me.

I can't speak for any other contract but it was a concession by the APA to allow jet flying by any other entity. In reality the flying belongs to nobody but management.

My group will indeed fight for our careers. We may lose the fight but by the time its over your group will surely know that you've been in a fight. This one will be no holds barred. Like you say, it's not personal, it's just business.

I wouldn't expect anything less. Of course the issue is complicated by the fact that the majority of small jet pilots would eventually like to fly for a major. I fully support making small jet contracts as comfortable as possible for those making a career of it.

As long as thousands of pilots are furloughed every job matters and it's easy to view a mainline pilot's opinion as an arrogant sense of entitlement. Well, many do feel that way, especially those who fomerly flew for the regionals. During the TWA/AA integration AA pilots formerly with TWA were among the loudest to scream "staple 'em all!" But that skewed sense of entitlement also exists in the ranks of the small jets. I'm not being accusatory; it's just human nature to believe that if you're a hard-working pilot you deserve a good career. But the fact is due to furlough and bankruptcy this career will be lousy for a lot of good guys.