Just Got Off Work - Welcome To My Hell

[Palerider957]

I know how thick I was for my first few lessons, I'm sure I drained a few instructors. It doesn't end with the basic ratings either. When you get into the sims and have check airmen trying to drive procedures, profiles, callouts, immediate action items, etc., etc., into your head, it's like being a student pilot all over again.....suddenly you can't even get the A/C through basic maneuvers let alone more complicated things.

To instuctors who keep good cheer and a pleasant tone, you have my respect and admiration.

 

[Singlecoil]

This thread reminded me of something I have been contemplating lately, and that is how important the first 5 or so hours of instruction are. I have flown with a lot of pilots who were never taught how to use the rudder properly, and I've often wondered how this happens. Do the instructors not notice, not care, or not know themselves?
I have a hard time bringing the subject up with the person sitting next to me, because its something they should have learned a long time ago. My biggest pet peeve is when you move the power levers/throttles in a prop plane, you need to move your feet. More power, right rudder, less power, left rudder. This should be learned in the first couple of hours in the 172. I think a lot of people arrive at the regionals with multi experience exclusively in a Duchess or Seminole with counter-rotating props. No torque-induced yaw in those planes. Now hop in a Dash-8 and watch the thing get sideways when you put the spurs to it, or chop the power to descend. I'm sure the SAAB and Brasilia are the same way.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that an instructor who hammers this into his/her primary students from day one is doing that pilot a huge favor.

Another good one, is the tendency for some people to pump the yoke in the flare. Drives me up and down the wall. Simply another bad habit that was allowed to develop and will be very hard to extinguish.

 

[bunnyfufu]

i just thought of a possible cause for the constant "right rudder" reminders.. parallax error of reading the inclinometer from the right seat will make it look like the ball is to the right when it is actually in the center.... so when the student thinks it is perfectly centered, you might think it is to the right

 

[Colonel Cairo]

right rudder. right rudder. right rudder. right rudder. right rudder. right rudder. right rudder. right rudder. right rudder. right rudder. right rudder. right rudder. right rudder. right rudder. right rudder. right rudder. right rudder. right rudder. right rudder. right rudder. right rudder. right rudder.

Isn't that all instructing is about?

Had a student I got in a "let's swap our nightmare students" deal who had soloed a year or two before I flew with him. He was Ukrainian-American and was an engineer at P&W. Maybe "rudder" means "aileron" in Russian or something but I think he thought he was flying one of his jets because power-on stalls were a feet on the floor affair. Nose starts yawing/turning left? No problem, crank in more right aileron! After trying everything I could think off I got to the point where I would make him sit on his hands so all he had control of was the rudder. I had the power and the ailerons and what did he do at the break? Grab the yoke and, you guessed it, full right aileron!

"I'm running out of money. Why won't you solo me? Uh, 'cause if you do that at a couple hundred feet on takeoff you're gonna leave nothing but a smoking hole and a flight school with one less airplane."

He wanted to keep flying so I resigned myself to practicing my spin entries and recoveries until I could get him on the Chief Instructor's schedule. He never came back after that. Do you think it was something I said?

Sometimes I really do miss instructing.

 

[Typhoon1244]

Originally posted by starvingcfi
ok. watch your heading. you're 100 feet high. you're 100 feet low. you're high again. why do you like 2600 feet so much? you know, if you put that effort into holding 2500, you'd be doing great. right rudder. right rudder. right rudder...

Wait, I know this student! You mean she still hasn't found someone who'll sign her off?

Those of you who are/were perfect instructors with the patience of Moses, feel free to criticize. The rest of you...chill. Even the best instructors I ever knew had days like this.

 

[100LL... Again!]

starving cfi-

Sorry that the thick headed ones did not seem to realize that this was a humorous montage of a cfi's career.

Parallax error on the ball? Not likely. I don't need the ball to know if the aircraft is trimmed. Also, any good cfi can tell if the student has the aircraft trimmed without looking . It's a feel thing.

My favorite overheard quote: Let's try flying a hundred feet HIGH now just for the change of pace.


I once told a multi student his two choices were me being sweet as pie and the rating taking 20 hrs, or I could crank him through in 10 hours if he could take a whuppin'. Being a cheapskate (like any pilot worth his salt), he chose the whuppin' method and finished in 11 hours. Everything's a trade-off.


It really is true: If you want the student at 2500, tell 'em to hold 2400.

 

[starvingcfi]

whew. thanks a lot. i thought this thread was going to turn into a flame on me. there's too much starch around here.

anyway, i'm glad other instructors/or ex's (lucky bast*rds) can relate. thanks a lot. off to work again.

starvingcfi

 

[Simon Says]

Where do you fly out of?

 

[list2002]

Yeah, if you fly out of Bravo airspace "comms" bring a whole new dimension to primary flight training.

 

[Chickenhawk]

Too many people don't know the concept of "venting". I thought it was funny.....only came on to warn you about taking any advise from ksu_**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**cat. He eats little boys.

ROOOOOCK CHAAAAAALK!

 

[larry]

I had a student tell me on lesson two that I needed to keep my hands off the controls and let him fly more. He was not nice about it. The next lesson we go up in a C-172 and try some power off stalls 3000FT AGL. Once in the stall the left wing drops, he adds full right aileron, the nose drops, he yanks back on the yoke. The plane rolls over into a nice spin, and for those of you who couldn’t get a C-172 to stay in a spin when you tried, do it with flaps and it makes for a nice steady spin. The student is now holding full back pressure and opposite aileron in the spin and gasping for air, we are sinking at a pretty slow rate so I just say, “hmmm, I’m not supposed to touch the controls so why don’t you take out the flaps, put the ailerons to neutral, release the back pressure and apply rudder opposite the director of our rotation” The student is now hyperventilating and finally lets go of the controls (I think o cover his eyes) and of course the plane promptly pops out of the spin on its own. I got an e-mail two days later that he was not going to continue his training.

 

[tarp]

Starving -

I get it, funny ha-ha. (Just so you don't think that I'm brain dead).

BUT........isn't repeating yourself like that getting on the edge of psychotic? (And I do understand you think you are in he11) I just can't repeat things that many times. If I hear myself repeating something three times (3x) then its time for ME to do something different.

Like Bobby said, the student is very distracted up there. That bouncy 172 has got way more attraction than my voice. So I have to fight for their attention.

Let's take your "right rudder" - I can't think of any better teaching aid then to say nothing at all. Some day you're not going to be there saying "right rudder, right rudder, right rudder". Heck, on a stall/slow flight entry, AFTER I"VE TAUGHT THE IDEA OF RIGHT RUDDER COMPLETELY, I would probably do nothing and in fact if the student has a tendency not to react, I might even put a little instructor induced left pressure. You think the student will get the idea now that the airplane is turning left. Yes, YOU have to work harder and be more confident in the airplane. To push left rudder on a stall, you have to have your hand pushing the yoke in gently and the right foot ready to push the pedal to the proper position.

That FOI has "Intensity" as a learning tool - I use it a lot. Because I've been ignored for a lot of years and gone home with a lot of sore throats from trying to yell over the din of 172's/152's all day. I found out that it was a whole lot easier to let students learn from their mistakes instead of me trying to beat them over the head with a baseball bat.

My teaching method is a running commentary (kind of a checklist of items) as the procedure develops. If I stop and criticize one thing, then the student becomes myopic on that one thing. Instructor does and instructor talks
Student does and instructor talks
Student does and student talks.

Music to my ears:
Student (S): "OK, clearing turns, starting left, clear left"
Me(I): "Clear right"
S: "Turning right"
I: "Clear Right again"
S: "Clear left, heading for the water tank, gas on proper tank, undercarriage welded, mixture rich, prop bolted, seat belts fastened, switches....lights and pumps are on. 35 hundred feet, power to idle, holding 35 hundred, got the water tank, looking for the white arc, white arc, first notch of flaps..." (by the way, my students won't say anything about the rudder unless the "water tank" or an assigned heading get away from them!)

I don't get sore throats anymore, the door frames have all been sanded and repainted and look great (I'm not pounding my head against them) and I still love teaching.

 

[bobbysamd]

Cultural differences among students

Larry's comments are interesting. I recall a few American students who thought they knew more about receiving instruction than I did about providing it.

I've instructed American and foreign students. I found that a great number of American students do not take kindly to a firm, intense, but friendly, approach to instruction. It's for their own good. In other words, try to impose a little discipline, i.e. tough love, and you receive forms of passive aggression. Compare it to European students, who apparently appreciate a firm, intense, but always friendly, approach. The Italians I had did well with me and I enjoyed them immensely.

I remember a student I had at Mesa. Part of the Mesa program is to learn its line callouts from hour one of Bonanza primary training. Students had to say the callouts out loud during the various phases of flight. I harped on this student endlessly to learn his callouts. I explained how it was important and how it related directly to the 1900 he would fly eventually for Mesa (always keeping it positive). He refused, endlessly. I finally soloed him but he changed instructors, except for his first dual cross-country, for which he was not prepared at departure time. I don't believe he came back for the next term. This was not some high school punk in his first semester of college; this was an ex-Navy Gulf War vet. I expected more from the likes of him.

I think it has to do with schools. Teachers in American schools have had their legs cut out from under them and cannot impose the necessary authority to do their jobs. All teachers require authority to do their jobs. They apparently have it elsewhere, because European schools are strict.

 

[hagen]

I remember this one student. Foreign and didn't like harsh criticism b/c I dished the sheit out. So we are crusing on a x/c flight and he turns to me and says "I'm sick take the plane". Hell no I says. What if you were in here by yourself. So At least I let him turn around and start trucking back home. Yeah he again wants me to take the plane. NOPE!!!!. SO he opens the window, pukes out the side I'm forcing his head out now to keep from puking in the plane. We start flying who knows where. And I make him fly it the whole way back. Him puking a couple times more. Even during the flare I think.

To those who think their sheit don't stink. was that the smartest thing. Not really. Did it put him in a realistic situation? You bet cha.

NEVER HAD A PROBLEM WITH HIM AGAIN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
And he turned out to be a good stick too

Dude hang in there. I remember back to those CFI days as some of the best ones. Seeing the crap you used to do and fly just to get an hour of flt time and your still alive is funny enough. And remember those students look up to you. Everyone's got their own unique way of instructing and thats what makes it cool.

Take it all with a grain of salt. I wouldn't have had it any other way.

 

[RichardFitzwel9]

StarvingCFI,
Just started reading this thread and I don't know whats funnier, your first post or the posts of the couple of guys criticizing you and giving you advice. Its guys like flyhard that take the fun out of EVERYTHING. Thats hilarious.....

One of my personal favorites:

Leaving for a dual cross-country(not the first). And I'll also point out he also had a handheld GPS that was programmed correctly with the flight plan.

CFI: So which general direction should we be flying to get to XYZ
airport?
Student: Uh...southwest, why?
CFI: Which direction are we heading?
Student: Uh...southeast
CFI: So ya think maybe we should make a turn?
Student: Nah, I think we'll be alright
CFI: Ok, we'll go this way. But just out of curiosity what was the
Mag heading you briefed me on?
Student: 205
CFI: Whats our heading now?
Student: 165
CFI: See a problem with that?
Student: Not really, after all I'm following the hi-way that goes
right by XYZ airport
CFI: Oh really? You mean the highway thats now 10 miles to the
west of us?
Student: No, no offense but I've lived here longer than you, I
think I know the roads around here.
CFI: OK, my apologies, continue
1 hour later
Student: Um, I think we should have seen the town and airport
by now.....um, I think um, yeah maybe I'm a little lost.

 

[surplus1]

"Those who can, do; those who can't, teach; those who can't teach, teach teachers." -- Horowitz

 

[starvingcfi]

haha. great responses. now this is what i was looking for. thanks a lot.

starvingcfi

 

[Typhoon1244]

I knew a guy who was with a student making an approach over a "noise-sensetive" area. The PAPI's all red, the airplane's sinking, and the student's holding about 15% power. (I don't remember R.P.M. settings anymore.)

Finally, our hero asks the student: "Say, Abdul, we're getting pretty low, aren't we?"

Student: "Oh yes, yes we are."

Instructor, after a pause: "Think we ought to do something about it?"

Student: "Oh, but we are not to make any undue noise over--"

Our hero rudely shoves the throttle (and the student's hand) to takeoff power and says firmly: "We don't care how much noise we make...if we're gonna crash!" As the student worked on stabilizing the airplane, our hero then popped the window open and began shouting down at the country club: "F___ you! F___you all!"

 

[ceo_of_the_sofa]

I knew a guy who was with a student making an approach over a "noise-sensetive" area. The PAPI's all red, the airplane's sinking, and the student's holding about 15% power. (I don't remember R.P.M. settings anymore.)

Finally, our hero asks the student: "Say, Abdul, we're getting pretty low, aren't we?"

Student: "Oh yes, yes we are."

Instructor, after a pause: "Think we ought to do something about it?"

Student: "Oh, but we are not to make any undue noise over--"

Our hero rudely shoves the throttle (and the student's hand) to takeoff power and says firmly: "We don't care how much noise we make...if we're gonna crash!" As the student worked on stabilizing the airplane, our hero then popped the window open and began shouting down at the country club: "F___ you! F___you all!"

funniest thing I read all week, bar none...well, maybe that lady's essay on why she digs pilots was a little better

 

[ShawnC]

you remember the pitch for 70kts. just put it there. there. right there. no. JESUS! MY PLANE! ok. don't do that again.

So you were the aircraft that I saw doing that in the east practice area at 2600' ft?

Also of you want them to pay attention better I heard poking them with a fork everytime they do something wrong works.