Jumpseating after drinking.

[siucavflight]

I would have turned him in. People need to know the rules before they play the game. Inexperience is not an excuse.

Not the right thing to do, at least I dont think so. Some are way to quick to eat their own in this industry.

 

[Starscream]

Argh. It doesn't matter where you sit -- if you're jumpseating, you're an additional crewmember, and you need to be sober for it. Riding in the back doesn't change the rules, even if the FA offers you a drink.

Ok playing devils advocate here. That statement is only a partial truth. Regardless of what everone here thinks is "right" the FARs are pretty clear on this and do not prohibit drinking in the cabin. They specifically state that you may not have consumed 8 hours prior or be above .04 BAC prior to REPORTING FOR DUTY OR SERVING AS A REQUIRED CREWMEMBER. Jumpseating IS NOT DUTY. When jumpseating, you are not bound by duty time/rest limits because you are not on duty. Furthermore, if you're a non-CASS airline or on an international flight, you're not even allowed into the flight deck at all.

On the other hand, the FARs prohibit alcohol on the FLIGHT DECK and say that no person shall be admitted to the flight deck following the consumption of alcohol. The FARs make no mention of an off-line jumpseater being prohibited from drinking in the cabin. You guys might think it's wrong, but it is certainly not illegal.

Now in practice, what this guy in the above scenario did was not bright because he drank before trying to jumpseat and then had to sit in the cockpit because the cabin was full. Yes, what he did here was technically an FAR violation because he was on the flight deck following alcohol consumption.

Actually, our manual allows us to drink while non-reving in the cabin of our flights (and mainline) and indicates that drinking shall be done "in moderation."

 

[ASA_Aviator]

Even better, a good old father and son "exit the aircraft and come back when your'e sober".

Start letting this crap slide, then what's next? You are, by definition, an extra crewmember.
Would you show up to fly like that?

Wouldn't the professional and responsible thing to do be to plan ahead on not being sauced when jumpseating, therefore avoiding the situation to begin with?
What if a pax or F/A smells alcohol on the guy and blows the whistle to the gate? Now we all go for testing and as the captain I now have to answer for why there was a drunk in my cockpit.

Sorry, simply not worth it. Try a later flight.

Hey, I wasn't saying that you should let him on your plane, just that you shouldn't call the cops, or his chief pilot. I don't know. I'm just not for turing people in.

 

[John Pennekamp]

I would have turned him in. People need to know the rules before they play the game. Inexperience is not an excuse.

I assume you mean turn him in to Pro Standards, or the union jumpseat committee, not the company? At least that's what I hope.

 

[DeltaLima21]

Yes, turning him in to Pro Standards would be the right thing to do.

 

[30West]

Hey, I wasn't saying that you should let him on your plane, just that you shouldn't call the cops, or his chief pilot. I don't know. I'm just not for turing people in.

No, wasn't advocating going to the company.
Would definitely give him an earful, then send him packing.
If he was in uniform, I would strongly advise him to remove his epaulets and ID once got back to the top of the jetway until he was sober.

This is sort of along the lines of the old interview question "Your Captain shows up drunk for work, what would you do?"

Bottom line is the same, try to handle it before getting the company involved as an absolute last resort. But only outcome is that the flight doesn't leave with an intoxicated individual sitting in the cockpit.

 

[Flybywire44]

Just wondering what your thoughts would be on this. I was flying last week and a younger regional FO stuck his head in the cockpit after boarding and asked if we minded him riding in the jumpseat from MIA to IND. This is a long flight in the ERJs jumpseat. The Captain said no problem. Kid straps in, and once we get to cruise I can smell alcohol on this guy, and I know the Captain can as well. After about an hour my Captain said to the young man "I know you are new to the airlines and I am not going to get you in trouble but for the future just so you know the same rules for drinking apply to you as an ACM as it does to the both of us, keep it in mind."
This kid looks at him and says "Oh I know I thought that I was going to get a seat in the back, and instead they stuck me up here."
Nothing was said other then that, and my Captain was a nice guy and let it slide, but he was pissed afterwards. I can understand a mistake, but this guy knew the rules and intentionally broke them.
Just thought I would share with you.

I hope all you captains out there read this... Nothing is worse than a pilot throwing a new one under the kid under the bus.

Hats off to your Captain.

 

[ThisistheDream]

10 years ago I was jumpseating on America West to LAS with some other pilot buddies. We where all jumpseating, but sitting in 1st class. While in cruise the FA asked if we wanted a free beer. Not knowing if we could she asked the Captain and he said you can drink all day, your not in the cockpit and not a required crewmember. In that scenario i dont think its a problem, but common sense to me says dont drink while jumpseating. I would just enjoy the free ride and if you want to drink fly online or get a pass and try to get 1st class.

 

[siucavflight]

Yes, turning him in to Pro Standards would be the right thing to do.

I am not sure what turning him into pro standards would do, the new FO was a member of an airline that is not an ALPA participant.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Wow... I am surprised the cool pilots haven't called out the Captian for even asking the kid about drinking...calling it unprofessional of the captain to ask...

The TSA would love to take away jumpseating... cockpit or cabin... to screw it up for everyone just cause you want to play Jonny Cochran and read the regs and mindtrick yourself that you can drink in the cabin... it is not worth it....

 

[DeltaLima21]

I am not sure what turning him into pro standards would do, the new FO was a member of an airline that is not an ALPA participant.

A little education on the subject goes a long ways. If he knowingly did this, then he is walking on thin ice.

 

[WalterSobchak]

I have specifically not drank the night before, because there was the chance of having to jumpseat to get back from visiting friends. It sucks , but suck it up.

Same here.

I've never felt comfortable drinking if sitting in the cabin on a jumpseat agreement, either. Non-revving, hell yes, pass the free booze (I managed to kill off 5 and a half drinks between DEN and SLC today...)...but not while hitching a ride to/from work on another airline.

 

[siucavflight]

If this schmuck is among the ranks at RAH (Judging by the fact he was going to IND), even though we are IBT 747, we do have a very active pro stans comittee.

I would be more than happy to provide you the contact information.

While I appreciate the info T-Gates, I am not going to say where he worked at, and if the Captain wanted to take any further action I would support that decision. I do not really feel that it is my place to involve myself in this. To me the jumpseat belongs to the Captain, what happens in it, and who sits there is up to him.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

While I appreciate the info T-Gates, I am not going to say where he worked at, and if the Captain wanted to take any further action I would support that decision. I do not really feel that it is my place to involve myself in this. To me the jumpseat belongs to the Captain, what happens in it, and who sits there is up to him.

Sorry to read this... why not call the captain up and pursue it..... aren't FO's responsible and professional too?

 

[Wankel7]

The cockpit crew said they did not smell it until cruise. What are they going to do land the jet because of it ?

Now, the captain did cut this kid a huge break. He should have at least put this through to his jumpseat coordinator on an anonymous basis. I would have done that at LEAST. And the only reason would have been because of the jumpseaters response. "Oh, I know..." Wow, you are a cocky person. The response should have been "I am sorry and I am sorry to put you in this position. Thank you." And about nothing else.

I guess one major risk to this is what if a passenger noticed it before the cockpit crew did. And they just pointed a finger and said that pilot has booze on his breath and he is in the cockpit. He MUST be our pilot! Sounds the alarms....that would turn everything into a major problem for everybody and make the news.

If it was me and I smelled it upon the initial greeting I would pull him aside and decline the jumpseat. Being nice about it just won't cut it because of the possibility of a passenger smelling it before I did.

 

[siucavflight]

Wankel, I agree with you. If either one of us had noticed it before we took off I am sure that things would have been different. He was not in uniform, not that it matters, and you are right if the passengers had smelled it, it could have been big problems for us.

And Rez O, no doubt that we as FOs are responsible and professional. My job as an FO is to assist the Captain with everything that happens, and if I feel something is unsafe to continually bring it to the captains attention until a safe outcome can be obtained. In this case I did not feel that the safety of the flight was in jeapordy, and what happened to the jumpseater was up to the Captain not me.

 

[chqflyer]

I've gotta pipe up on this one. At least send a letter or phone call to our pro-standards about the incident. You don't have to name any-one or give too much info. Just a " this is something that occured" type thing. That would at least result in a few open ended memo's reminding some of these FU**ING CHILDREN we are now hiring that this is not a GO**AMN FU**ING FRAT PARTY!! OK Rant off...

 

[SKYWRJGUY]

Johnny Cochran?

Kid coulda used the Chewbacca Defense.

 

[BoilerUP]

I hope, at the very least, you and/or your captain had a long talk about professionalism with your captive audience...

 

[Axel]

He will either wise up or fall victim to his own stupidity. Natural selection.