Judge Silver issued her decision in Addington II

[PuffDriver]

No sadder than a pilot group driving its carrier into bankruptcy (twice, true talent there) and being too stupid to extract themselves when given the chance.

Yep, those darn pilots making companies go bankrupt? :erm:

Nobody is that dense, so I can only assume you mean to mislead.

Look, I get it. You worked for a junk airline in the desert. You didn't want to, i mean nobody grew up wanting to fly for America West. Yet, for whatever reason, you were there. :roll eyes:

Then along comes a global airline, your CEO has half a brain cell and decided that two failing carriers provide some meat to them so that the govt may not let them shut down. I mean, the govt already owns a third of your airline anyway, so why not try for more. :roll eyes:

Enter your pilot group, who never did anything for the profession (unless you count actively working against some of the nice perks)

Your CEO sells you on the idea that you are saving the day for another pilot group. You buy into it, despite all evidence to the contrary, and away we go. A federal mediator doesn't so much fall for your BS as wants to punish a group whom he feels hasn't paid proper respect to the process, despite evidence to the contrary, and gives the gift of NIC.

A month later, another gift is given in that the "have nots" of the airline biz, that would be you and SWA, convince congress that older is definitely better in a cockpit. And your gift of NIC keeps on giving as the fences drop immediately, despite the fact that NIC sorta figured they would make it at least 5 years. Oh well, onto the joint contract, which has to be independently ratified by both groups in order for AWA to make it to the lottery office and cash in their ticket. They are willing to give pretty much anything, and why wouldn't they; for they have done it their whole careers so as not to "drive their carrier into bankruptcy, oh wait??

Problem is that the majority elects those in charge of the negotiating agenda, and they feel as if the company is not opening up the purse strings enough, although it's hard to believe that a large airline would try and keep labor costs down :roll eyes:

Then, the CEO's eye is caught by another merger which, takes his focus firmly off of the ball and into the global arena to try and make his still too small to have critical mass in order to survive. Any kind of serious negotiation is drown out by the loudspeaker of AA. The rest is recent history.

I get it. Your crap company is coming along for the ride with the big boys. We both know it is going to happen, so why not try and pull a Comair and go for broke. Most pilots probably would. The problem is that there is another group involved who has done, wait for it, NOTHINGillegal. The ride to the lotto office got a flat, and never reached it in the time frame allotted. That is a problem, because now only the phrase "wide range of reasonableness" applies. it has been found to favor the controlling union pretty heavily. I know that you and the judge are trying to get a union to "do your right thing", but the "right thing" means different things to different people. A crap airline making a pittance, with no domicile left in the world, with a very large pay raise, and pilots (although more junior) having access to wide body aircraft.. for that matter having a JOB may, just may, fall under the definition of "wide range of reasonableness" at the 9th. Personally, I might be a bit more humbled were I flying 25% of the other guys routes, under pay essentially equivalent to a twice bankrupt carrier, with one domicile doomed to a little thing called the S-curve. But hey, knock yourself out. You guys have done nothing your whole careers except feed on dead stuff, when you went for something alive (thinking it was dead) it jumped up and kicked your ass.

Now you are going to try and say that changing over to APA will exempt USAPA from SLI? :roll eyes:

AWA/USAIR: SLI===>contract===>independent ratification
DAL/NWA: Contract===>independent ratification===>SLI per joint contract
UAL/CAL: Contract===>independent ratification===>SLI per joint contract
USAir/AMR: Contract===>independent ratification===>SLI per joint agreement

Hmmmmmmmmm

 

[PuffDriver]

SO then how do you feel about Southwest? Spirit? Jet Blue?
Truth is, thanks to the east ****************************** bags, there has been a drag on the industry downward to make any type of momentum for more than a decade! INDUSPUTABLE!

Really? Truth is that the East had an enviable contract through 911, first, second, or third best depending on what was most important to you.

The drag for ME, and I would venture to guess about 70% of legacy pilots might agree:

-Delta and their judicious use of RJs
-SWA, Am West, and the other bottom feeders hiding behind bs discrimination to rid us of attrition and degrade safety margins via age 60
-Of course, Am West Spirit, jBlu, Virgin America, Frontier, CAL and the host of regional feeders hanging on the compensation bar their entire existence (which is well over a decade)
-JBlu for illegally flying 9 hour turns to the West coast and back, opening the door for today's "safer and better" 117 regulation, which is neither safer nor better

No, plenty of blame to go around. Some airlines have fought for the quality of life many of us sought when we came into this business, some have folded, some emulated the French.

So be it, but to place ANY blame on the East for legally wrangling out of arbitration is incorrect, and siding with a group who has never done anything to protect the profession is tantamount to treason.

Just sue them, it's been working so far :laugh::laugh:

 

[Bringupthebird]

Puff, did you say something?

 

[Bringupthebird]

Puff, did you say something? My eyes were watering from laughing at a wannabe-that-never-was saying that SWA was a "have-not".

You're a true original - oh, wait there are 3500 of you morons that think that way.

 

[Bringupthebird]

I guess you missed the memo - there was no independent ratification in the TA. Oopsies!

 

[Scoot 11]

Puff, did you say something?

It's difficult for him to speak with his mouth full. He's bobbin for apples on the lap of his eastie man love!:laugh::laugh:
How else will an eastie supplement his/her income!!!

 

[Scoot 11]

Puff, did you say something? My eyes were watering from laughing at a wannabe-that-never-was saying that SWA was a "have-not".

You're a true original - oh, wait there are 3500 of you morons that think that way.

He's an easthole through and through! Either that or her husband is one! Either way, just goes to show you how completely ********************ing stupid she is!
More than a decade of being on a pay scale slightly lower than MESA! LMFAO! A real group of dickheads over there!

 

[Turtle21]

Cactuspilot.com
"Push for Just a New Car" (not4U, 4Marty!)

 

[PuffDriver]

Puff, did you say something? My eyes were watering from laughing at a wannabe-that-never-was saying that SWA was a "have-not".

You're a true original - oh, wait there are 3500 of you morons that think that way.

That's correct, they had not a retirement. They had not work rules. They have never met the most lucrative contract in the industry. They make their money by working their a$$es off for it. It is what it it is, but they were (in the context of my post) and are a have not. Compared to the West, they are a have, as are most airlines.

 

[PuffDriver]

I guess you missed the memo - there was no independent ratification in the TA. Oopsies!

Wow, you really got me there. It was worse than independent ratification. The timeline was the important thing, and shows why USAPA WILL be at the table even after APA is voted in.

But let's not pass up this nugget. The West ratified the MOU by, what? 94%? 97%? They became convinced this would show damages. How did you say it? Oh that's right, oopsies!! So now they are trying to say that they were misled. While true, perhaps the next lawsuit should be their lawyer as the defendant, or their pilot/lawyer. Then they throw barbs about integrity, when the goal is really worse than that of the East, going back on a deal. Which brings us back to this post?...

ALPA merger policy stated list, contract, independently ratify. That's the way it went down with AWA/USAir, or rather did not go down. Problem was, no contract. While i'm sure that it was all the East pilots fault :roll eyes: and USAir was completely above board once the rest of the industry entered "merger mania" :roll eyes:, the old consummation never took place.

Different story with American; totally different. The deal is done. All parties are trapped as there is an agreement, and it is ratified. All parties have agreed to accept negotiated or binding outcomes. With ALPA merger policy, all parties agree to accept the list as part of an acceptable contract, which as you very well know never happened. Case closed, and Silver (despite her moodiness) knows. So do you.

Otherwise, you might actually have some kind of semi-intelligent attempt of response. Same with your buddy the sponge. I suppose, however, if you had that intellect you would have found yourself under different circumstances than your current one.

Like shooting fish in a barrel. Remember, you always have the General. Later boys, and remember, you've ALWAYSbeen the bottom of the barrel, East only after 2 consecutive BK contracts. :laugh: