Job Offer

[Gulfstream 200]

24K is a lot for your attitude Skyline.

Take the job, consider yourself lucky, and enjoy being a "stooge" for them there rich folk!

what a joke.

 

[Skyline]

Gulfstream

GS 200,

You are quickly becoming one of my biggest fans and best friends. I am glad to see that you are watching my back.


Sincerely;

Skyline

 

[Dangerkitty]

GS 200,

You are quickly becoming one of my biggest fans and best friends. I am glad to see that you are watching my back.


Sincerely;

Skyline

Gulfstream 200 speaks the truth Skyline. Your attitude and self worth are a joke. No wonder you have gone no where in this industry.

 

[moonlight]

Skyline,
I live just east of you in MT, and have a job flying a King Air 350 (flew 5 WHOLE days this month, 13 hrs. It was tough...) Two owners, strictly Part 91, getting a brand new 350 next month. My salary is MORE than double what they are offering you, and I get bennies on top of that for my self and my family, at no additional expense!! Don't sell out!! When I interviewed for this job, they made a lowball offer. I refused it that time, and a second time as well. Finally, they asked what it would take, and I presented a list of terms and conditions. Some items were industry standard, some weren't. Long story short, they agreed. All it took was some effort on my part to show these guys what they were getting in return, and what would have been a mediocre corporate gig is now what I consider a dream job. Help those cheapskates understand that having to retrain pilots constantly as they keep leaving is MORE expensive than paying you more than slave wages, and you sticking around for a while.

 

[Skyline]

Dk

DK,

Not to correct you but I did go places in this industry, just nowhere I wanted to go. I am considered quite a success by my peers. I also had a positive attitude but time, experience and years of disappointment have changed it a bit. I am not using just my own experiences. I have watched as my friends careers imploded as well. I still like to fly and miss the dream, but I can't fool myself into thinking that it will all work out as I did in my youth. I am glad that you can though.

Skyline

 

[Skyline]

DangerBoy

Dangerboy,

Thanks for the input. I will try as you mentioned, but the last time I stood up and demanded more I was shot down. The highest paid B200 guy in the area makes 39K and that is because he is also an IA and does the maintainence as well.

Skyline

 

[Dangerkitty]

Dangerboy,

Thanks for the input. I will try as you mentioned, but the last time I stood up and demanded more I was shot down. The highest paid B200 guy in the area makes 39K and that is because he is also an IA and does the maintainence as well.

Skyline

Your numbers just dont add up. You are quoting the pay rates for a light piston twin. Either you live in some sort of black hole or every pilot in that area is nothing more than a whore.

The pay rates are even lower than what those idiots fly for down in Florida. Thats just embarrasing.

 

[the_dimwit]

Dangerboy,

Thanks for the input. I will try as you mentioned, but the last time I stood up and demanded more I was shot down. The highest paid B200 guy in the area makes 39K and that is because he is also an IA and does the maintainence as well.

Skyline

Skyline,

I'm not a pilot by trade, but the issue you are being presented with is fairly universal. You MUST take pride in yourself, your skills, and your trade. Therefore, the offer should be refused.

If they "shoot you down," then you have lost nothing. Your self-esteem / self-worth is still intact, and you are not working for an employer who would force you to take a practically unlivable wage.

Just my 2 cents...

--Dim

 

[Skyline]

Self Esteem

I don't get your connection with Self Esteem and pay. If I don't take this job then I will have to buy flight time to stay current. It is almost worth is for that reason alone.

Sometimes I think that people get tunnel vision when it comes to pay. Locals don't expect to make more than 40K per year. It's just the norm around here. If I don't do it I am sure they will find someone who would. If the pay was a little higher then I am sure that the guy who is flying it now would move with the job. Even the Hoirizon Air pilots don't make a whole lot more, and believe me it is a much harder job. There is another company nearby that is looking for pilots to fly an aero commander and the pay is close to 25K per year. I would consider it but they are on the road a lot.

Skyline

 

[Lead Sled]

Uncle, I give up.

'Sled

 

[avbug]

I was alerted on Friday to expect another Kingair job offer this Monday.

Hmmm. I guess that would make you a

FLYING GARBAGEMAN!!!

Who'da thunk it?

I think it is like 24 to 34K per year and no factory time.

Factory time? As in a Beechcraft Factory King Air pilot?

You never know perhaps I could luck into a great job like some of you guys.

You mean all this flamebait crap you've been spewing for so long now is thickly veiled jelousy? Interesting backpeddle. Or are you merely trying to set people up to carry on your original vein of thought in badmouthing the industry? Seems to me you're trying to establish a ground in which you have a job that everyone thinks is substandard, in order to make the point that everyone else is a sellout and lives substandard to your high and mighty view of the industry. Or it could just be plain jane flame bait.

The time I built would only amount to a few hundred hours a year, If that.

6,400 hours with major airline experience, and you're talking about "time building?" Anybody here who doesn't think skyline is flame bait, please stand on your head.

Aviation jobs just don't pay all that well overall here. Even Lear Captains barely reach 40K.

Lets see...either doesn't know the job market, or is new in avaition, is making it up...or...is FLAMEBAIT!

That's because nobody wants to move to Kansas...

I liked Kansas.

A year ago I had another King Air opportunity. They asked for my salary requirements and I told them at least 60K. Their counter offer was almost half. I stalled and soon after the plane went away and they didn't buy it. They did however send me to King Air school and payed my whole way. You would think I could find something out there, but there are few good jobs in the area.

You mean you were going to be a flying garbageman then, too? How hypocritical of you. You hadn't settled on your pay, and the employer didn't have an airplane for you to fly, but you were sent to school anyway? What an amazing life you lead, even for a flying garbageman.

Flame bait.

Of course, for flame bait, we need only read some of your recent quotes, such as...

When I left Horizon Air they wanted me to pay $547 in unpaid training contract costs. Well I paid them since on of my friends was sued and threatened with getting beaten up.

Horizon is threatening to beat people up now, are they? Your crushed dreams...didn't last long enough at even Horizon to get past training bonds?

My current employment is keeping me happy for now. I already own a Taylorcraft F19. It sits in my hangar and collects dust. I just can't get excited about it anymore. My plan is to sell it this spring.

But it's just the lure of that King Air calling you out, is it? Flamebait.

I don't like charter or corporate style flying...Corporate is a dead end since it doesnt really lead back to the airlines.

I have never liked the idea and never willingly applied to a corporation for a flying job.

I was laid off over two years ago from my last airline job. Since then I have been hired and promptly quit or courted a few local corporate (or junk corporate) jobs.

You corporate/charter guys have always had an inferiority complex. Well today is your time in the sun. I am sure that at one time most of you tried hard to get on with a major airline. You don't have to even deny it because I know you will. Many a corporate hangar is filled with airline rejects. Well get out there and crow. The bus drivers have fallen on hard times. For now at least you can dance for us.

In my career I was a CFI for a long time, flew the Alaskan Bush, was a corporate and charter lear and citation pilot, flew multiple contract planes for the Forest service and finally flew for one regional and one jet national airline. I hated most of it.

Therefore I am not addressing those of you who desire to be the garbage men of the sky. If your aim is to simply pilot a Lear around the country and be someones whipping boy forever then have at it. If you are proud to pilot a crappy old caravan I will send flowers when you finally pile it up on approach one day.

Did you just admit to being a tanker pilot??? Well you are a garbage man of the sky.

I am sorry if I am arrogant but someone needs to save you from yourself.

Wow.

 

[Skyline]

Avbug !!!! YEA

Yea Avbug !!!

You came !!! How are you? If I take the job then I would be worse than a flying garbageman. At least Garbagemen earn a living. I would really enjoy addressing all your quotes. Are you going to hang around this time? I would hate to go through all that for nothing.

Skyline

 

[avbug]

If I take the job then I would be worse than a flying garbageman.

Twelve steps, and the first is admitting it...

Are you going to hang around this time?

I have never not. However, I do work for a living, even if it's just garbage, to you. I did decline to continue a thread recently in respect for external current events...but responding to you here on an extended basis only feeds your hypocritical drive to get a rise out of the masses. Your own quotes expose you. Feel free to add more.

 

[the_dimwit]

I don't get your connection with Self Esteem and pay.

Skyline,

I didn't say there was a connection.

Self esteem and pay are not bedfellows, but they share a room together. Don't take a job for money only. Take it for the sum of its parts: work environment, job description, pay, time off, benefits, etc.

If I don't take this job then I will have to buy flight time to stay current. It is almost worth is for that reason alone.

From what I understand, you haven't exactly professed a whole lot of love for paid aviation, so I don't know if that's an issue. But, let's assume that you want to stay current.

I am going to assume that you make a good bit more than 34k. If you did take the job, what would you lose in terms of salary? 25%? 30%? More?

So, if you end up losing a lot of money per year, resulting in financial hardship for your family, what would be the real cost? Would paying a few hundred per month to keep current be worthwhile in that case?

Sometimes I think that people get tunnel vision when it comes to pay.

You are correct here. People do place too much attention on salary and take jobs that pay well but prove to be horrible in the end.

When it all boils down, Skyline, you have to make a decision about your career.

I work in the IT industry, and had to make a choice a few years ago. I decided to improve myself and my professional image by going to college to get a degree. (This was a tough decision, believe me!) I don't know if you have a degree or not, but it may be an option. If you have a bachelor's, get a master's. If you already have a master's, go for an industry certification of some kind--anything to make your resume stand out as a candidate worth more money.

If, after all that, you still aren't pulling in offers with higher pay/QOL, then you really should consider moving to another part of the country or changing professions.

--Dim

 

[Kingairrick]

I was reading this earlier this morning and thinking: "where is avbug with the quotes from this loser?"
Thank you Avbug. I don't think he gets it though.

 

[Skyline]

Avbug

Avbug

We all have to spend time as garbage me of the skys to get to someplace good. What I don't understand is people like you who profess that you wish to stay there. I just don't understand that logic. Why intentionally put yourself in harms way and suffer low pay and bad working conditions with the intent of making a career out of it.

In my current situation I could use some flight time to freshen up my resume in hopes of scaring up a job with a hiring airline. However even that seems like a long shot these days.

In conclusion you are totally correct I have spent most of my career as skygarbage in bad jobs with low pay and dangerous working conditions all to make it to the next rung. I love to fly but I love making a good and safe living even better. The work I did when I was younger was much more satisfying and fun than my time at the airlines, but most people strive to get to the majors for the pay and working conditions.

Personally I don't care to ever sit in a lear or King air ever again, but if I want to get a better job someday I might have to. If that isn't clear then I will have to try again.

SkyLine

 

[Dangerkitty]

Avbug

We all have to spend time as garbage me of the skys to get to someplace good. What I don't understand is people like you who profess that you wish to stay there. I just don't understand that logic. Why intentionally put yourself in harms way and suffer low pay and bad working conditions with the intent of making a career out of it.

In my current situation I could use some flight time to freshen up my resume in hopes of scaring up a job with a hiring airline. However even that seems like a long shot these days.

In conclusion you are totally correct I have spent most of my career as skygarbage in bad jobs with low pay and dangerous working conditions all to make it to the next rung. I love to fly but I love making a good and safe living even better. The work I did when I was younger was much more satisfying and fun than my time at the airlines, but most people strive to get to the majors for the pay and working conditions.

Personally I don't care to ever sit in a lear or King air ever again, but if I want to get a better job someday I might have to. If that isn't clear then I will have to try again.

SkyLine

With each and every post you continue to contradict yourself.

You need therapy.

 

[avbug]

I suspect this is his therapy.

Why intentionally put yourself in harms way and suffer low pay and bad working conditions with the intent of making a career out of it.

I don't put myself in harms way. I eliminate the risk of harm. That's part of being a professional, but you ought to know that.

I guess there's that risk of getting a papercut while reviewing a load manifest, or getting a blister from too many strokes on the FMS keys...or having a little old lady threaten my personal sense of self worth by commenting on a rough landing as she deplanes...that surely would hurt, and is a big risk to one's delicate psyche. For some.

Bad working conditions? You work alongside me do you, are are you psychic? What do you know that I don't?

Intent of making a career out of it? I'm a little past intent, at this point. It's been a good career thus far.

In conclusion you are totally correct I have spent most of my career as skygarbage in bad jobs with low pay and dangerous working conditions all to make it to the next rung.

I find that rather enlightening, seeing as you've loudly professed:

I have never liked the idea and never willingly applied to a corporation for a flying job.

Dangerkitty is correct; you are a contrasting self statement according to the winds of what you wish to say. The winds apparently blow both ways.

Personally I don't care to ever sit in a lear or King air ever again, but if I want to get a better job someday I might have to.

Apparently, that day is today...

I was alerted on Friday to expect another Kingair job offer this Monday.

Peraps you'll luck out and find another job that sends you to training without even settling on salary or having an airplane to fly. So few are so fortunate.

A year ago I had another King Air opportunity. They asked for my salary requirements and I told them at least 60K. Their counter offer was almost half. I stalled and soon after the plane went away and they didn't buy it. They did however send me to King Air school and payed my whole way.

 

[Skyline]

Contradiction

Dear DK, Avbug,

I don't see the contradictions that you all talk about, but you are probably right about the posting being a kind of therapy. I am very disappointed with aviation and my career. However there is still a piece of my personality that just will not let it go. I was out there for a long time and went through a lot of hard times. I came close to reaching my dream a time or two but it slipped away at the last minute.

My friends who quit flying years ago don't waste their time on web sites like this. They don't think of flying at all anymore. I haven't gotten there yet.


My ideas are upsetting since I think they hit home with a lot of you. I am not flame bait but feel that maybe I can get some to think of these things a little sooner.

Thanks for keeping up with me. It is flattering that you follow my posting career so closely. I am sure that if we were all to meet someday that we would be friends.

Skyline,


AVbug, I though you were a tanker pilot. Are you flying corporate now?

 

[avbug]

I do several jobs, as the need, occasion, and opportunity may allow. I do not presently fly corporate.

I don't follow you, nor your "posting career," illustrious though it may be. Your inflamatory and contradictory posts are designed to draw fire for your own purposes of entertainment, and are on occasion, difficult to miss.

Likewise, so are the contradictions. You, who has never applied for a corporate job, but has worked many, and who shows great distaste for "corporate" pilots, whom you deem flying garbagemen, along with all others who are not of major airline ilk. Your regional career, which lasted not enough span to clear you of a training bond...that's what, less than a year? Your short "major airline" career upon which your sermons of crushed dreams and a dead and dying industry are founded, all juxtaposed to your desire to return to that career.

Your posting regarding the sad state of the industry, collectively condemning all who enter in and all whom might consider so, told us you were leaving the industry. You had enough. But a month or two later you're back, after doing nothing but condemning and attacking virtually every segment of the industry but your haughty own. I believe the general sentiment was not to let the door hit you in the back on the way out, and I believe few here would disagree that you shouldn't let the door hit you in the face on the way back in. Just put in a revolving door and enjoy that world of contradiction.

Hit home? No. Just an annoyance from one who has little to do but perpetuate foolish flame bait. That's you, by the way.

Your stories don't stack up, but have fun with that King Air job just the same. Even if the aircraft doesn't exist. Even if they can't decide weather to pay you sixty thousand or thirty thousand...even if they send you to school and then kick you loose scot free in the end. Watch out for that door. Here it comes again...

 

[bigD]

Sigh...more flamebait from our resident troll.

 

[pilotman121]

Flamebait!

Sigh...more flamebait from our resident troll.

I second that motion!

 

[Skyline]

Flamebait

Avbug and all interested parties,

I don't see myself as flame bait. I don't think things would be as fun around here without Skyline and others who disagree with the main group theme.

Everything I post are honestly my opinions. A lot of it goes against what most of you are in support of, but I doesn't automatically make it wrong.

I wish I was at liberty to fill in the entire picture for you. I feel obligated to remain a little vague to preserve my peace.

It was two years by the way at Horizon Air. I mistakenly thought I was clear of the training contract and was able to quit almost immediately upon my two year anniversary of my hire date and unknown to me they ran the contract from the first day off IOE. Therefore I owed an extra three months.

Additionally, much of what I post is intended for humor. I guess I need to be more obvious in the future.

I appreciate any comments you my have. No matter the spirit of the message.

Skyline

 

[Spooky 1]

DK,

You are such a gentleman. That is what I like best about you.

To answer your questions. I live in Washington State. Aviation jobs just don't pay all that well overall here. Even Lear Captains barely reach 40K. It just isn't enough money.

I have a family of four small sons. For the first time in my adulthood we have a good and peaceful life. During my aggressive pilot days we moved a lot and lived in some bad places to keep the dream alive. A move to the city to make a few thousand more a year wouldn't be worth it.

I don't know if you are married or have a family but it changes things. There are few opportunities here and what there is ain't so good. Employers know it and exploit the situation.

Skyline

You must live in Eastern Washington. 24 / 34K won't even pay rent in the slums of Seattle. Building houses has to bea far better job than flying some "rich guys" King Air. Forget the King Air job and direct all your energy to building homes, you will be a far better and happier man for it. Hell, you might even own your own King Air someday.

 

[Skyline]

Spooky

Thanks Spooky,

You are probably right. Is just hard to let go.

Skyline

 

[KigAir]

I hope I never find myself in the back of an airplane that this guy is flying. His confidence is overwhelming.

 

[Diesel]

People are impressed with your career? Who the CFI at the FBO? I'm sure even he is chuckling when you walk away.

Way to stand up for yourself though. Really amazing.

 

[Airway]

If I were in your position, I'd get out of aviation all together. There is a point when it's just not worth it, and whoring yourself for 25K, especially with your experience, isn't worth it. I'd go with your backup, if you've got one. Don't put your family through that crap all over again. Flying's great, but to an extent. There's a time when you just put your cards down and pull out. You could make more flippin' burgers on the beach in California, anyway.

 

[some_dude]

Why all the negativity towards garbage men? When I was a kid, my dream job was driving that big garbage truck!

 

[casper1nine]

that was my dream too

when i was a kid all i wanted to do was drive the "dempsy dumpster" truck, you know the kind with the forks on the front.

now, all i wanna do is free dental work on whoring low-ball 24k king air pic's.