Job Application and FAA Administrative Action

[Sandstorm]

Back in 2004 I was the F/O on a Part 121 revenue flight for which it was determined that the weight and balance was calculated using the wrong aircraft tail number. Even though the actual weight and balance was indeed within limits, it was still calculated incorrectly for our flight.

As a result, the CA and I were issued FAA letters of warning. Per the warning letter, it was to be made a matter of record for a period of two years, after which it was to be expunged.

On the My FAA Actions on AirlineApps.com, it asks Have you EVER had an FAA administrative action against you. Even though this warning letter should have been expunged, should I still check yes?

 

[Abernathy]

I'm wondering if a letter of warning qualifies as "action" against you..

 

[wscrj]

Always easier to explain why it's on the app than why it isn't.

 

[lookin4better]

Absolutely check "yes" and explain.

 

[veneratio]

No, it has been expunged and therefore not part of your record.

 

[Taco Rocket]

Make sure they actually expunged your record. 50/50 they did or not, but if not (and you ask) they will take care of it ASAP.

 

[scoreboardII]

what you guys fail to realize is there are companies that make a living taking "snapshots" of these records, then other companies, like airlines use these companies to crosscheck applicants information. While it may be expunged, someone "has" the information that a letter was issued.

Two things, call the company and ask if a warning letter that is expunged would be concidered an "action". Then, if not, fess up.

 

[Mike man]

A company can't pull your PIRA without your permission...you have to authorize the release. Additionally there are protections provided by PRIA (summarized below):

A PILOT’S EXPECTATIONS AND PROTECTIONS UNDER PRIA​

Pilot Records Improvement Act (PRIA) of 1996, as amended​

Title 49 United States Code (U.S.C.) § 44703 (h) - (j)​

1. A Pilot’s Expectations and Protections under PRIA.

a. All professional pilots, being considered for employment by an air carrier, are provided with certain expectations and protections concerning the request, transfer, receipt, evaluation, and maintenance of their records as provided for in 49 U.S.C. § 44703(h) – (j).


2. A pilot’s Privacy Protections under PRIA. (49 U.S.C. § 44703(h)(11))

a. At the beginning of each PRIA request process, all pilots must first sign a consent for the release of all of their PRIA-related records. This includes the release of the following specific groups of records:

(1) FAA records.
(2) Previous air carrier employment records.
(3) DOT Drug and Alcohol Testing Records.
(4)Records from the National Driver Register (NDR).


b. The Confidentiality of a Pilot’s Records under PRIA, must be protected in the following manner:



(2) Only the company personnel directly involved in the hiring process of the air carrier may view and evaluate the records.


http://www.faa.gov/pilots/lic_cert/pria/forms_docs/


So, if it has been expunged it is gone and not part of you record. Call the FAA records division and ask them, they would know more that anyone here.

 

[GuppyWN]

I would admit it, explain it and tell how you learned from it.

But I'm not currently looking for work, either.

Gup

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Trust me, I would admit it. We all make mistakes and it shows accountability to fess up to something that is gray like this. I know a few guys that have done this and been successful in their endeavor.

 

[AceOnTheRiver]

Back in 2004 I was the F/O on a Part 121 revenue flight for which it was determined that the weight and balance was calculated using the wrong aircraft tail number. Even though the actual weight and balance was indeed within limits, it was still calculated incorrectly for our flight.

As a result, the CA and I were issued FAA letters of warning. Per the warning letter, it was to be made a matter of record for a period of two years, after which it was to be expunged.

On the My FAA Actions on AirlineApps.com, it asks Have you EVER had an FAA administrative action against you. Even though this warning letter should have been expunged, should I still check yes?

Check and see if a warning letter qualifies as administrative action. If it does then I would answer yes to that question. A company can fire you 10 years later if they find out you lied on the application through some other action.

 

[Raoul Duke]

you are doomed, pick another career

 

[nwaredtail]

Back in 2004 I was the F/O on a Part 121 revenue flight for which it was determined that the weight and balance was calculated using the wrong aircraft tail number. Even though the actual weight and balance was indeed within limits, it was still calculated incorrectly for our flight.

As a result, the CA and I were issued FAA letters of warning. Per the warning letter, it was to be made a matter of record for a period of two years, after which it was to be expunged.

On the My FAA Actions on AirlineApps.com, it asks Have you EVER had an FAA administrative action against you. Even though this warning letter should have been expunged, should I still check yes?

I too, as many of us had, have had run in's with the FAA. Mine was a warning letter over some BS thing, but they can hand out warning letters all day long. Mark yes, even if it has expired, and when they ask you about it, take ownership, admit you made an error, and they move on. If you deny it or try to blame someone else, you are toast.

"The Captain and I both did not notice the incorrect tail number on the weight and balance paperwork. The w and b data was fine and there was no safety issue. Even though there may have been mitigating circumstances that lead to the error, the fact of the matter is that it was our responsibility and we made a mistake.I made sure it never happened again"

 

[Jakejett]

Lying or purposely leaving information off of your application is a worse offense in my opinion than the actual violation. They want honest employees working for them. If you leave it off you will worry yourself to death that they might discover it, even after you are hired and flying the line you will wonder if they will call you on it and fire you for not being honest on your application. Save yourself the stress and just explain it. This is just my opinion.

 

[Green Banana]

No, it has been expunged and therefore not part of your record.

What part of "EVER" did you not understand?

 

[iflyhigh]

Say yes and if there is a box to explain, explain. Otherwise move on. I have asked many carriers if a Warning letter is an administrative action and they all said "yes". The FAA issued a warning. I know several pilots, including myself, who have been hired by majors with a letter of warning. Fess up, take ownership and move on. That is what they are looking for.

 

[Flyoa1]

Administrative Action = Letter of Warning or Letter of Correction. The question asked "Have you ever..." Say yes and explain.

 

[Sandstorm]

Thanks for the replies. I was leaning towards yes to begin with, but since its suppose to be off my record I wasn't sure if it was worth mentioning.

 

[Colonel Savage]

How about recieving a FAA Letter of Investigation concerning duty limits, then recieving another letter several weeks later saying the matter has been closed with no further action required? Is that an "administrative action"?

 

[JAFI]

How about recieving a FAA Letter of Investigation concerning duty limits, then recieving another letter several weeks later saying the matter has been closed with no further action required? Is that an "administrative action"?

A Letter of Investigation is just that - a letter informing you of an investigation. A "No Action Letter" is the process of closing an investigation when - no further action is required thus closing the investigation.

This is not "Administrative Action" against the pilot.

If you care to look at the 300 plus page order:

http://www.faa.gov/regulations_poli....cfm/go/document.information/documentID/17213