Jetsuite KPOC runoff?

[jonjuan]

http://www.abc15.com/dpp/news/region_northern_az/sedona/faa:-plane-goes-off-runway-at-sedona-airport

SEDONA, AZ - Authorities say an aircraft has gone off the runway while landing at the Sedona Airport.

Federal Aviation Administration spokesman Ian Gregor said the Embraer E50 "slid off the runway and down the mesa" around 4 p.m. Wednesday. Gregor said the flight departed from San Jose, Calif.

Gregor said five people were on board the Superior Air Charter flight, including two pilots and three passengers. He said all five suffered minor injuries.

Sedona police Cmdr. Ron Wheeler said all five were able to climb up to the runway. Two were taken to a local hospital for evaluation.

Wheeler said the jet fell about 350 feet down a gradual mesa and is resting on a tree.

The FAA and National Transportation Safety Board are investigating.

 

[340drvr]

Brief video report here:

http://www.azfamily.com/news/Plane-skids-off-Sedona-airport-runway-down-cliff-122625404.html

 

[OPECJet]

Sounds like a good airplane to take into Telluride...

 

[jet2work]

There's Yur Problem Raht There

I can tell you what happened just by looking at the video.

The video shows the aircraft laying off the edge of the mesa and the number 3 painted on the end of the runway. That means that this guy tried to land downhill on rwy 21 at Sedona.

This runway used to have over a 2% gradient. They added a few feet to the runway and raised the elevation of those few feet to bring it back under 2%.
Elevation: 4736.1 ft.4830.0 ft.Gradient: 1.9%

Now, I ask you. At some point, does the slope of this runway exceed 2%? Heck yes! All they did was make it legal for Barbara Striesand to fly in, in her jet.

Very rarely would anyone other than a small prop. airplane try to land downhill at this airport unless the winds were howling out of the south. When that happens, you can count on the following according to the notams:

WHEN LANDING RY 21, DURING STRONG SW WIND CONDITIONS, STRONG DOWN DRAFTS ARE VERY PROBABLE (probably my a$$) NE OF APCH END OF RY 21.

If you have done any mountain flying, you know that you do not want to get below the line of demarcation (which is what this NOTAM is subtley reminding you of). What this means is that you will want to come in a little high (above the shear, the higher the winds - the higher you want to be). This is deceptive on a downsloping runway (your sight picture does not lead you to think you are high). In this area, you will encounter updrafts. There are very few times when landing long (not insinuating that they did - but conditions were conducive) on a short downsloping runway will work out well for you. Add to that, the elevation of the airport and the resultant faster true airspeed, and there may not be many people who could pull this off successfully

I don't know what the winds were at the time of the accident. Here's the recent forecast.

261126Z 2612/2712 21008KT P6SM BKN250 FM261500 22015G25KT P6SM BKN250 FM261800 22024G35KT P6SM BKN250 FM270200 24010KT P6SM SCT250


I am guessing that the winds were out of the south and so they decided to land on 21. Personally, I think I would have told the pax, "We are diverting to Flagstaff, I have arranged a limo to give you a nice tour through Oak Creek Canyon. Enjoy your stay." Of course this is so much easier for me to say here at my keyboard.

Lastly, the CEO of the company states that this pilot was very experienced and had 24,000 hours. "That's yur problem raht there."

I'm just glad nobody was killed or seriously injured. I don't think the investigation is going to be kind to this crew. I just hope that with 24,000 hours the pilot had amassed some type of retirement.

 

[FL430]

I can tell you what happened just by looking at the video.

The video shows the aircraft laying off the edge of the mesa and the number 3 painted on the end of the runway. That means that this guy tried to land downhill on rwy 21 at Sedona.

This runway used to have over a 2% gradient. They added a few feet to the runway and raised the elevation of those few feet to bring it back under 2%.
Elevation: 4736.1 ft.4830.0 ft.Gradient: 1.9%

Now, I ask you. At some point, does the slope of this runway exceed 2%? Heck yes! All they did was make it legal for Barbara Striesand to fly in, in her jet.

Very rarely would anyone other than a small prop. airplane try to land downhill at this airport unless the winds were howling out of the south. When that happens, you can count on the following according to the notams:

WHEN LANDING RY 21, DURING STRONG SW WIND CONDITIONS, STRONG DOWN DRAFTS ARE VERY PROBABLE (probably my a$$) NE OF APCH END OF RY 21.

If you have done any mountain flying, you know that you do not want to get below the line of demarcation (which is what this NOTAM is subtley reminding you of). What this means is that you will want to come in a little high (above the shear, the higher the winds - the higher you want to be). This is deceptive on a downsloping runway (your sight picture does not lead you to think you are high). In this area, you will encounter updrafts. There are very few times when landing long (not insinuating that they did - but conditions were conducive) on a short downsloping runway will work out well for you. Add to that, the elevation of the airport and the resultant faster true airspeed, and there may not be many people who could pull this off successfully

I don't know what the winds were at the time of the accident. Here's the recent forecast.

261126Z 2612/2712 21008KT P6SM BKN250 FM261500 22015G25KT P6SM BKN250 FM261800 22024G35KT P6SM BKN250 FM270200 24010KT P6SM SCT250


I am guessing that the winds were out of the south and so they decided to land on 21. Personally, I think I would have told the pax, "We are diverting to Flagstaff, I have arranged a limo to give you a nice tour through Oak Creek Canyon. Enjoy your stay." Of course this is so much easier for me to say here at my keyboard.

Lastly, the CEO of the company states that this pilot was very experienced and had 24,000 hours. "That's yur problem raht there."

I'm just glad nobody was killed or seriously injured. I don't think the investigation is going to be kind to this crew. I just hope that with 24,000 hours the pilot had amassed some type of retirement.

Some pertinet points made, Sedona can be a fickle gal to court on good days. Couple this with the Phenom's known brake failure problems and a "24,000 hrs experienced guy" (smaks of airline) and watch out.

 

[SDCFI]

The CEO is quoted as saying they have never had an incident like this before but this thread starts with them going off at KPOC about 5 months ago. Guess that one was a mulligan?

 

[johnsonrod]

Sedona is the last place you want to have this happen. That must have been a very scary situation from the cockpit. The winds whip around and you just run out of runway real fast... I am amazed nobody was killed.

 

[jonjuan]

Sedona is the last place you want to have this happen. That must have been a very scary situation from the cockpit. The winds whip around and you just run out of runway real fast... I am amazed nobody was killed.

HUH? Have you ever been to Sedona? "Amazed nobody was killed?" A bit dramatic? Are you a real pilot? Do you have any short runway experience?
Expect the general to back you up in 3, 2, 1....

 

[johnsonrod]

HUH? Have you ever been to Sedona? "Amazed nobody was killed?" A bit dramatic? Are you a real pilot? Do you have any short runway experience?
Expect the general to back you up in 3, 2, 1....

There you go again, stirring up trouble... I've flown there NUMEROUS times dumba$$. I lived in the PHX area for awhile a few years back and I am super familiar. Dramatic???? Clearly you haven't been there and you don't have a clue. It's not a place where you want an accident to happen with little margin for error if you are coming in fast - get it? I guess the fact that it is on top of a mesa and you run out of space quickly means nothing to you cuz you are a Top Gun pilot.

(http://www.airliners.net/photo//0486090/L/&sid=553ef46d6e8e06f9a4c9f33db13d05d4)

You are the next Chuck Yeager. Seriously, you should feel great about yourself (not insecure). Yeah right, you jacka$$...