Jetride

[charter dog]

Agreed.
I believe that the captain must have atleast 100 hrs Pic and 250hrs TT between the two pilots. I think.

The problem of how to bring a new aircraft type into the fleet for which the present company pilots have no time in type can be handled in several ways. I'll use the Wyvern pilot experience requirements as an example since I believe them to be the most restrictive of the several that exist. Handling the issue in such a way so as to remain eligible for Wyvern compliant trips requires some advance planning. Different operators may view the problem in different ways. One of the more popular alternatives is to simply train company captains on the type and then have them fly non-Wyvern trips until they meet the requirements. Contract or street-hire captains can be used to fly Wyvern trips and may fly with company captains on Wyvern trips once the company captain meets the SIC requirements. Wyvern qualified crews are then available to fly those trips that require it and crew are cycled through SIC to PIC as the required experience levels are attained. After a while, a cadre of original company pilots will have achieved the required Wyvern requirements for both crew duty assignment positions by flying a combination of Wyvern and non-Wyvern compliant trips. The proportion of all trips requiring Wyvern compliant crews and the view the company takes toward whether or not ALL trips must be dispatched with compliant crews on board will determine the method by which pilots with no time in type gain that experience. Waivering may be an option if certain conditions are met.

Here is the latest version of the Wyvern crew qualifications standard:

PILOT-IN-COMMAND (PIC)

Qualification Criteria:
Turbojet
Turboprop
Rotorwing
Airman Certificate
FAA ATP:
FAA ATP
FAA ATP-H:

Appropriate category, class and type ratings
Appropriate
category class and type ratings
Appropriate category, class and type ratings

Medical Certificate
FAA 1st Class
FAA 1st Class
FAA 1st Class

FLIGHT TIME:​

Total (all aircraft)
4,000 hrs with 3,000 as PIC
4,000 hrs with 3,000 as PIC
4,000 hrs with 3,000 as PIC
Category (Fixedwing/Rotorwing)
4,000 hrs with 3,000 as PIC
4,000 hrs with 3,000 as PIC
2,000 hrs as PIC
Class (Multi-engine land)
3,000 hrs with 2,000 as PIC
3,000 hrs with 2000 as PIC
___________
Type (specific type and model)
200 hrs with 100 as PIC
200 hrs with 100 as PIC
200 hrs with 100 as PIC
Actual Instruments
250 as PIC
250 as PIC
100 PIC (IFR)
0 PIC (VFR)
Category and Class last year
300 as PIC (75 hrs most recent quarter)
300 as PIC (75 hrs most recent quarter)
300 (Most recent quarter: Hours + Landings divided by 2 = 75+)
FAA Sanctions last 5 years
None
None
None
Accidents or Incidents last 5 years
None
None
None

SECOND-IN-COMMAND (SIC)​

Qualification Criteria:
Turbojet
Turboprop and
Citation 500 Series
Rotorwing
Airman Certificate
FAA Commercial Instrument:
FAA Commercial Instrument:
FAA Commercial Instrument
Appropriate category and class
Appropriate category and class
Appropriate category and class
Medical Certificate
FAA 1st Class
FAA 1st Class
FAA 1st Class
FLIGHT TIME:

Total (all aircraft)
2,000
1,500
---------
Category (Fixedwing/Rotorwing)
1,500
1,000
1,500
Class (Multi-engine)
*1,500
1,000
---------
Type (specific type and model)
50
50
50
Actual Instruments
75
75
50 IFR, 0 VFR
Category and Class last year

200 (50 hrs most recent quarter)
200 (50 hrs most recent quarter)
200 (Most recent quarter: Hours + Landings divided by 2 = 50+)
FAA Sanctions last 5 years
None
None
None
Accidents or Incidents last 5 years
None
None
None

Pilot Training:​

Successful completion of FAA approved simulator based pilot recurrent training within the last 12 months. This training must meet the requirements of FAR 61.58 PIC, FAR 61.55 SIC in addition to the requirements listed in the "Training" section of Wyvern Operator Standards.

Pilot Testing:​

As specified in FAR Part 135 and Wyvern Operator Standards.
An FAA approved drug testing program.

Aircraft Types in Service: ​

Pilots are restricted to no more than two aircraft types concurrently. All experience and training requirements must be met in both aircraft types.
*Once a co-pilot has achieved 50 hours in type, the required multi-engine time of 1,500 hours may be reduced by one hour for each additional hour in type, up to a maximum of 500 hours. For example, a co-pilot with 550 hours in type is only required to have a total of 1,000 multi-engine hours.


© 2002-2006 Wyvern Consulting Ltd.

So while it is probably wise for the company to bring in some "outside help" to get these new aircraft types up and running, this should not preclude current pilots from upgrading to these planes while meeting company business objectives by remaining available for Wyvern, Argus, Q-star, etc... compliant trips. It's a delicate matter which I hope will be handled in the best interests of all involved. Companies have to deal with this quite often, and Wyvern and the others are used to dealing with the issue. Good luck and congrats on the new equipment.

Best,

 

[Globalflyer]

Recently. Both are managed aircraft, one is a 3, the other a 4 but it is not a done deal yet.

What exactly does "not a done deal yet" mean?

 

[CFI4LIFE]

What exactly does "not a done deal yet" mean?

It means exactly that. The details need to be finalized, so the deal on the GIV is not a done yet. One could read that as... we MAY be getting a GIV, we are planning as if we ARE getting a GIV, but until its parked in the garage the deal is not complete.

 

[macpilot]

I belive I will start a new operating standars like Wyvern and Argus. Just bump up the time requirements a little and then charge charter companies a lot of $$$ to be approved by me. Seems like an easy way to make money. Anyone else in?

 

[JJET44]

It means exactly that. The details need to be finalized, so the deal on the GIV is not a done yet. One could read that as... we MAY be getting a GIV, we are planning as if we ARE getting a GIV, but until its parked in the garage the deal is not complete.

It's a done deal as of Friday.

The bid is posted and as per our VP, more to come!!

 

[landlover]

I belive I will start a new operating standars like Wyvern and Argus. Just bump up the time requirements a little and then charge charter companies a lot of $$$ to be approved by me. Seems like an easy way to make money. Anyone else in?

I agree, I don't know squat about wyvern or argus. What do they provide? that so and so has X amount of time in type? Do they actually review logbooks and company records? No. Do they just have you fax over the last 3 pages of such records? wyvern/argus is a scam! i know of an operator that just pencil whips the wyvern paper work. what a joke.

 

[100-1/2]

Training Program and Proving and Validation Runs Anyone?

20 to 30 hours of flight time in training program AND
20 to 30 hours of Proving runs or Validation Tests?

AirNet could easily hire from within, if they wanted

and ditto the previous comment about Wyvern.

Or how about this,

Tell Wyvern to jump in a lake for a couple of months
on that make and model?

Low-Time Captain Minimums? are a joke. The summer is the
best time to get your PIC time for the regular wx mins when
the soup cooks up in the fall.

just my US $.015
Or, keep drinking the kool-aid.

100-1/2

 

[JJET44]

And than what do we do about our the companies who require Wyvern or ARG/US which, by the way, make up 85% of our business?
Here's the gig, only a small percentage of our pilots have issues with hiring a few guys off the street to get things going. The rest of us understand that this has to be done. People who can afford to fly Gulfstreams can afford to be choosey. If we start this up and go it alone without the business from the Wyvern/ARG/US brokers, we stand to lose out on a lot of business. This, in turn, will make our partners, who are supplying us with the ACFT, to think twice about buying more.
Lets stop thinking just about ourselves and the near future or there may not be a future at all. I don't believe for a second that our D.O. would hire off the street if he could fill seats internally and still operate with our current brokers.

 

[starcheckdriver]

JetRide is hiring 3 captains and an FO for the GIV. 1 captain and 1 FO will come from within and another FO from within will be selected in 6 months or so. So, they are doing their best to promote from within and it is the VP's and DO's strong desire to continue to do so. Taking two guys off the street is a necessary evil for the startup process and this will become more of an infrequent event as JetRide grows and gets more aircraft.

 

[FL410guy]

I know our do told me the same thing, but i have a buddy that was hired right into the G 5 as a captain with no experience at all, he had been flying hawker 800 as pic for about 2 years. the company is argus platinum rated, and wyvern, according to there chief pilot, as long as you go to school, fly the tracks, and do international course at school then you are qualified. seems kinda fishy to me, ask around and you will see that we (our company) is doing this wrong. this is our spots to be had not someone off the street.

Use your little noggin on this one. The company is doing what is right, legal and safe. They will hire 1 contract pilot, 1 full time PIC pilot and 2 SIC with in the company to get the time. When our guys get the time they can upgrade to PIC. I wouldn't want to fly as a passenger with a capt with no flight time in type. I don't care how good he (thinks) he is.

I really don't know why a very few people even made a fuss about this. Kinda common sense if you ask me.

If you don't like it. Go work with you buddy