Jetblue's Cost Structure - Good Article

[jetblue320]

JetblueA320,

I have been briefed on some of it, and our entertainment systems will be a lot better than yours. How do I know? My brother, an airplane nut himself, rode on you guys a couple times, and liked it. But, he said that everytime your bus turned, the screen would blank. Apparentlly, ours will not do that. (That is what it said in the brochure)
Bye Bye--General Lee

You sound like my mother-in-law, who says "they have the best steaks in town, they must, it says so right there on the sign"

I am sure the brocure says a lot of things. Time will tell, and then we'll see. As far as what I know about Song, you are right, I have never been on the plane itself, but I have a few friends that work there and have heard some grumblings from them about how much BS it is.

Remember one thing, Song copied us (just ask the guys who founded it, they said that, not us) and we stay focused on our business. We have enough to do just keeping ourselves straight let alone worry about how you guys run your show. But if it makes you feel better, you're right, I don't know JS.

 

[Dizel8]

I think y'all are being a bit hard on General Lee, after all, he is just a line puke like the rest of us.

Song is a competetive response to the LCC's, particularily jetBlue. Obviously the jetBlue concept is working and, imitation being the sincerest form of flattery, Delta has chosen to emulate. Nothing wrong with that. jetBlue emulates SWA, with a few added beenies for good measures.

We will probably never know, if Song generates a profit, the numbers for just DLX was never posted to my knowledge, I do not anticipate Song being any different. Song has good loadfactors, but as we all know, that does not mean profits.

If Song does nothing other, than to stymie the growth of jetBlue, that would be considered a victory. But there is plenty of customers and business to go around. Before jetBlue entered the BUF market, there were 500 pax a day, now there are 1200. The SWA effect is well known, perhaps we can borrow that concept and call it the LCC effect. The market was price stimulated under all circumstances.

The management at Song are smart people, they know whether or not the TV's will show up and more specifically, when. Yes, jetBlue owns the technology for their system, I am sure someone sees a market for this and wishes to have their own system to offer. Boeing is supposedly working on it and they certainly have the know-how. Having said that, I have no doubt, that jetBlue will go tit for tat with Song on amenities. The current jetBlue system has plenty of upgradeability: Video, streaming MP3, email etc.

I will not talk about Songs "technological advantage", have not seen much other that the "boarding monitor" and cannot comment on the effectiveness of it. As far as utilizing the planes longer, not sure you can get much higher numbers than jetBlue, but time will show.

Kind of curious though, why Delta decided to rename it Song and not keep Delta Express, but perhaps that is like GM, knowing that many people were disgruntled, decide to call their new car a Saturn. It did however work.

 

[NYRANGERS]

Remember one thing, Song copied us (just ask the guys who founded it, they said that, not us) and we stay focused on our business. We have enough to do just keeping ourselves straight let alone worry about how you guys run your show. But if it makes you feel better, you're right, I don't know JS.

As far as I can tell, the only thing Song may have copied from Jetblue is IFE in EVERY seat. Although I think our 777's have it in every seat.

Other than that, it's just flying from A to B. I guess you could say Jetblue copied flying from A to B from the Wright bros. Although many Jetblue guys seem to think they invented that as well.

Jetblue is most evidently a great company to work for, but your innovations are only "ground breaking" to the media ( and we know they are always correct).

If you want to claim "uniqueness" then I suggest claiming superiorty with regards to your management/ labor relation. Otherwise, give us all a break. You fly from one place to another, just like the many airlines that have done so for nearly 100 years.

Take care and fly safe,

NYR

 

[JayDub]

As far as I can tell, the only thing Song may have copied from Jetblue is IFE in EVERY seat. Although I think our 777's have it in every seat.

Then what was that whole Yoga demonstration for on the first day of Song's operation? You know, the one that complemented the cards in the seat back? Where have I seen that beforee...?

JayDub

 

[CU@OSHKOSH]

Big picture

I does not matter what ingenious advertising, fleet plan, modifications to operations, or amazing technological gadgets any airline comes up with. Whether an airline makes it in the long run has everything to do with how the employees are treated and how employees treat each other.

That, combined with management that has a clear vision for the airline (not just their own pockets) and are in touch with what passengers really NEED, those are the carriers that will thrive. No matter what the airlines' size.

IMHO, the bottom line.

 

[OakRBust]

I have been thinking alot about the 199 seat 75's. We are racing to turn a 137 seater in 25 minutes. I would be really surprised to see Song turn a 199 seater in much less than 45 minutes or so. Anybody know what the planned turn times are going to be?


A 20 minute difference in turn times for lets say a scheduled 8 flight day would be a whopping 2:40 minutes lost in available flight time per jet. That might make the extra seats a disadvantage.



Just a thought


Oak

 

[skirt]

I have been thinking alot about the 199 seat 75's. We are racing to turn a 137 seater in 25 minutes. I would be really surprised to see Song turn a 199 seater in much less than 45 minutes or so. Anybody know what the planned turn times are going to be?


A 20 minute difference in turn times for lets say a scheduled 8 flight day would be a whopping 2:40 minutes lost in available flight time per jet. That might make the extra seats a disadvantage.



Just a thought


Oak

I just finished a study on exactly this topic. From memory, I believe the Song leadership was quoted saying they were "going to try for a 50 minute turn". I do not know what they are currently doing in actual operation, but it would be easy to go to Song's website to see.

Yes, there is a huge hit in lost productivity from long turn times, until you operate all nighters to make up for it.

Comparing notes with a Southwest crew and a United crew, both flying up and down the west coast. Where we fly 5 legs, they fly can fly 6. Our duty day is 2 hours longer, for 1 hour less pay (after figuring the trip-hour conversion for SWA pay). The reason SWA is more "productive" than us (UAL) is the average 55 minute turn times. This was an easy apples to apples comparison, because we both fly 737's. The only extenuating circumstance is that they fly through OAK and we fly through SFO, which often has delays and needs "pad" built into the turn times to keep on schedule.

Skirt

 

[G4G5]

I read that Song was considering the all night trans cons, similar to B6's. This would allow them to increase the utilization.

The other thing that a DAL buddy of mine was telling me was that mgt was looking into the Jet Bridges with the aft exits. This would allow them to turn the aircraft much quicker.

One more thing to consider is that B6 is not all that concerns Song, they have Airtran in ATL to deal with. Airtran is not going to get a 717 out of LGA to ATL any faster then Song is going to move a 757 out of JFK. Samething with ATL, by the time Airtran turns a 717 in ATL, Song could be moving a 757. Especially if they have dedicated Song 757 double jet bridge exits.
Maintianing market share in ATL is probably a greater concern then JFK for DAL mgt.

 

[General Lee]

G4G5,

We know that Airtran is becoming more of a threat in ATL, but until they build the new terminal on the Southside of the airport, Airtran will have a hard time growing or adding capacity due to the lack of extra gates. We know that they will expand more when they get that terminal, and hopefully by then (3 years atleast---they haven't built the extra runway either) we will be leaner to compete with them. They added Ryan A320's to LAX and LAS, and we have also increased our service to the LA Basin to 22 daily flights.


OAKRBUST,

Well, I have heard and seen what they are doing for the quicker turn times, and it mainly involves deplaning the people out of the L2 or Left 2 door with the front of the plane exiting first, and as they leave we have cleaners come in the front right service door and start to clean immediately. Then cleaners also invade the back of the 757 as those people move forward, and the cleaners try to meet in the middle. The passengers are also boarded a little different to expedite the process. Yes, there have been some kinks, but they are learning how to get it done.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[OakRBust]

Here is something to ponder...

We have about 2700 flights per day. Our typical turn time is 25 minutes. Each 5 minute increase in turn time costs us 13,500 minutes in the daily schedule (2700 daily flights * 5 minutes = 13500 minutes). That equates to 225 hours that the planes aren't flying.

We currently have 379 planes. Lets say that each of our flight segments averages 1.5 hours. 2700*1.5 = 4050 flight hours per day. 4050/379 = 10.68 hours / plane/ day

To cover the same schedule with a 5 minute longer turn time...

We would still need to cover 4050 flight hours. We lose 225 flight hours for every 5 minute increase in turn time. 4050-225 = 3825
3825 /379 = a new a/c utilization of 10.09 hrs/plane/day.
If we take the lost 225 hours and divide it by the new utilization rate of 10.09.... 225/10.09 = 22.29 additional planes required to complete the same flight schedule. (WOW)

Five minutes seems like mothing but all I can say is WOWOWOW. Every minute really does count.

NOTE TO EVERYBODY!!!! I am not a math major so there could be a few flaws in my calculations. I also am not saying that our average flight is 1.5 hours as I am sure that it is quite a bit higher. 1.5 just made the math easy.


Oak