JetBlue Vote....

[Flyby1206]

Unions have created an industry in which we need unions. We do not have any job portability as Airline Pilots. If you are an $80k/yr B6 FO who feels poorly treated then you dont have any realistic options for alternate companies making a comparable wage. Your best bet is starting at the bottom of another carrier for foodstamp wages in hopes that the company will be in business long enough for you to reach the top of the seniority/longevity payscale.

If pilots could take their experience, skills, compensation from airline to airline (as exists in the "real world") you could leave your $80k/yr B6 FO job and go be an $95k/yr DAL FO without any real pain. This situation would put the burden on the companies to create and maintain a positive/happy work environment because the pilots would truly be a commodity instead of expendable as we are today. With the burden for good pay/QOL/working condition resting on the company's shoulder, there really isnt a big need for unions.

The company doesnt want that burden, so they deal with unions. The unions create a negotiated framework of how poorly we as pilots can be treated. You can be Junior Manned twice per month, you must start 1st yr pay at $40/hr, you can only get paid an additional 20% for Overtime pay, etc etc.

And as previously stated, Unions are a big business. Their first priority is the success of the union by the revenue it generates. They are indirectly concerned with the well being of the individual pilot, but directly concerned with the continuation of a "need" for the union. Nasty fights with mgmt, rumors, marginal work rules, fractional contractual changes are all part of that charade.

I dont know what the answer to your union vote should be, but I do wish the best of luck to all who are making that decision.

 

[pilotyip]

Anyone who says unions are great blah blah blah is full of sh!t.

thank that is what I ahve saying, people should hear both sides if you are on a public form

 

[clickclickboom]

A350 why cant we pay debt down? Are you saying that every dollar that comes in is taxed and is then made available for corporate use and at the end of the quarter anything left over is profit?

There are tax, writeoffs, depreciation and the list of accounting 101 goes on. I wasnt providing exact numbers I was providing a theoretical example.

Instead of questioning others maybe you should go read our filings and educate yourself..?

It is great debt is being paid down, It is great we are spending 600,000,000 million to outfit continental with live tv even though the credit card swipe rate is 30% less than originally projected during the feasability study to determine our ROI.. ( sarcasm)

What is not great is when this employee group has been asking for industry average EVERYTHING while performing well above wait wait let me rephrase absolute industry leading productivity while being lied to and taken advantage of by management.

If the juicers dont see it then they are just downright buffoons. Each and every pilot here is losing tens of thousands of dollars per year because of the DIRECT actions of our management team..

God I could write a report worthy of congress just off the top of my head.

Todays example? We pay over 40% of our benefit cost.. The nearest airline is Airways at 26% and the industry average is around 18-20%. This is on top of std and ltd benefits that are subpar in every category. Take that extra $30 or $40 everytime you get care multiply it by your family members and project it out to 30 years and account for opportunity cost/lost income/lost compounding etc and that one single example could easily mean $200,000 to $400k or more out of your potential retirement.

Even if we vote in a union we are still a management team wet dream.. We are sitting here asking to be industry leading and negotiating for hopes of indsutry average..

 

[Lake Alice]

thank that is what I ahve saying, people should hear both sides if you are on a public form

In the end Unions are a necessary evil.

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

ALPA arrives at Jetblue. In 2 years an industry leading concessionary contract is agreed to that is good for 5 years. Meanwhile, as the airline industry seeks qualified pilots to replace age 65 retirees and the pipeline of 1500 hour new-hires dries up-- pay and benefits at all other airlines will increase (basic supply/demand). But we here at JBLU will be stuck in our concessionary contract for up to 12 years (2 years for first contract + 5 year contract + 5 years Airtran-like negotiation) while the rest of the pilots in the industry prosper... and when we get our new contract to make up for the shortfalls of our first contract, I'll be near retirement...

We go to the negotiating table with everything we have now. The process is a give/take one. Better retirement? Better medical? Sure, what are you willing to give up for it? That is why most First Contracts are concessionary. BTW, it better at least have a 2-3% increase in pay to cover our dues or right out of the gates-- you guessed it, concessionary...

Our management have already come out-a-blazing with how they love a third-party process. You absolutely think the company will give you everything you want?

Reality check here-- YOU BETTER START LOOKING CAREFULLY AT WHAT YOU'RE WILLING TO GIVE UP IN ORDER TO GET WHAT YOU WANT...

 

[pilotyip]

ALPA arrives at Jetblue. In 2 years an industry leading concessionary contract is agreed to that is good for 5 years. Meanwhile, as the airline industry seeks qualified pilots to replace age 65 retirees and the pipeline of 1500 hour new-hires dries up-- pay and benefits at all other airlines will increase (basic supply/demand). But we here at JBLU will be stuck in our concessionary contract for up to 12 years (2 years for first contract + 5 year contract + 5 years Airtran-like negotiation) while the rest of the pilots in the industry prosper... and when we get our new contract to make up for the shortfalls of our first contract, I'll be near retirement...

We go to the negotiating table with everything we have now. The process is a give/take one. Better retirement? Better medical? Sure, what are you willing to give up for it? That is why most First Contracts are concessionary. BTW, it better at least have a 2-3% increase in pay to cover our dues or right out of the gates-- you guessed it, concessionary...

Our management have already come out-a-blazing with how they love a third-party process. You absolutely think the company will give you everything you want?

Reality check here-- YOU BETTER START LOOKING CAREFULLY AT WHAT YOU'RE WILLING TO GIVE UP IN ORDER TO GET WHAT YOU WANT...

Another dose of reality in a sea of unbridled and unlimited promises of the future pilot job perfection

In the end Unions are a necessary evil.

Trouble is the necessity often turns evil. The union activists that move to the forefront of union leadership continue to sell the promises of increased pay, days off and benefits in order justify the union’s existence and why the pilots are paying dues. The defiant battle cry of we will show them who is boss rings through the union halls in defiance of the reality of the airline marketplace.

 

[Dizel8]

BB,

All the ones I have seen, have vastly improved the pay, benefits and work rules. I guess you want your benefits, retirement tied to a new hire ramper? Enjoy it! I for one will try for a bit better!

 

[B6Busdriver]

ALPA arrives at Jetblue. In 2 years an industry leading concessionary contract is agreed to that is good for 5 years. Meanwhile, as the airline industry seeks qualified pilots to replace age 65 retirees and the pipeline of 1500 hour new-hires dries up-- pay and benefits at all other airlines will increase (basic supply/demand). But we here at JBLU will be stuck in our concessionary contract for up to 12 years (2 years for first contract + 5 year contract + 5 years Airtran-like negotiation) while the rest of the pilots in the industry prosper... and when we get our new contract to make up for the shortfalls of our first contract, I'll be near retirement...

We go to the negotiating table with everything we have now. The process is a give/take one. Better retirement? Better medical? Sure, what are you willing to give up for it? That is why most First Contracts are concessionary. BTW, it better at least have a 2-3% increase in pay to cover our dues or right out of the gates-- you guessed it, concessionary...

Our management have already come out-a-blazing with how they love a third-party process. You absolutely think the company will give you everything you want?

Reality check here-- YOU BETTER START LOOKING CAREFULLY AT WHAT YOU'RE WILLING TO GIVE UP IN ORDER TO GET WHAT YOU WANT...

I guess in your world it is best to do nothing. It's time to go down a different road and at least have a seat at the table. ALL THIS GROUP HAS EVER ASKED FOR IS INDUSTRY AVERAGE. Average has been determined by the PCRB report yet we can't even get that. We can't even get access to the health care when on LTD. The new benefit enhancement for health care on LTD is crap. Once again the company has taken the lowest benefit and latched on to it.

 

[pilotyip]

I guess in your world it is best to do nothing. It's time to go down a different road and at least have a seat at the table. ALL THIS GROUP HAS EVER ASKED FOR IS INDUSTRY AVERAGE. Average has been determined by the PCRB report yet we can't even get that. We can't even get access to the health care when on LTD. The new benefit enhancement for health care on LTD is crap. Once again the company has taken the lowest benefit and latched on to it.

what about the post that JB 320 drivers are paid 30% more than 320 pilots at USAir? How does one determine industry average? Having been there done that, I am always concerned about the unintended consequences.

 

[Lake Alice]

BB,

We have been negotiating since 2005. We are already 5 years into a negotiating process with no end in sight. Our benefits have gotten worse. Our retirement has not changed. Our work rules have gotten worse. We have no scope. We have no merger protection. I can go on and on.

And for everything we do have not one piece of it is contained in our pilot employment agreements therefore at anytime the company may decide to discontinue these benefits at will.

I understand people are not happy with unions but like most issues in life it's what you make of it. At Jetblue we have no rights, no security and a limited future.