JetBlue Vote....

[B6Busdriver]

But Spirit is ALPA, we went on STRIKE and still got a concessionary contract!

That's debatable depending on who you talk to. How would they have fared with the direct relationship?

 

[Regul8r]

But Spirit is ALPA, we went on STRIKE and still got a concessionary contract!

That's debatable depending on who you talk to.

Just ask any ALPA rep, boomlrd...it was INDUSTRY LEADING!

 

[B6Busdriver]

Nope....he wasn't on the grassy knoll. But just like the decisions that were made that tragic day, we all have to live with the decisions that the leadership of this UNION have made that have put us in this place in time. Of course there has been external events that have helped the carnage. But IMO, ALPA's structure has been complicit in both the end result and the speed in which it occurred.

I was a dues paying member for over 18 years. I watched the slow motion train wreck that is today's profession. JB is a business. You rail on about how JB is screwing you financially and that they only have their interests at heart. I have news for you. ALPA is a business too. Many ALPA secretaries make more than an RJ Captain.

The guarantee you want is a strong, financially healthy company. It took the SWA guys 30+ years to get where they are today. They did it by sticking together, staying the course, and not caring what the rest of the airlines were doing. The mature contracts of the "elephants" of the past took 50+ years to achieve, and many of those companies no longer exist. Their contracts may never look the same again. ALPA might provide protection for your career, however, there are examples where they did not provide protection for members.

I support many of the initiatives you speak of. Scope, retirement, long term support in the event of a disability. I disagree with you on HOW we get there.

A350

First of all thanks for engaging and keeping it civil. The problem with your post is you want your cake and eat it too. You support the initiatives but you provide no mechanism to fix them.

Obviously you are an Airways or TWA guy that has been negatively affected. It's a shame what has happened to the employees of these two airlines. The lesson learned from TWA, US Air and even Southwest is that it takes financial prosperity as well as an effective union for career success. I love the idea of gaining scope, retirement, merger protection, etc without paying 1.95% but it simply can not be done. The company can not change our retirement without adjusting all the work groups. The company told us during the JBPA campaign they could find a workaround for our retirement, well where is it? Why would the company provide meaningful scope without negotiation? Will scope have any meaning unless in our PEA? No, precedent has been established with the seniority dispute for the 190 guys. Who represents you in a merger? Dave? The BOD? All questions to think about.

To say I rail on how JetBlue is screwing me is an unfair statement. I'm not beating my chest or posting personal insults. I am however posting the facts as they are. As I have said I have one emotional issue and that is health care on LTD. The rest is just business IMHO. Why would the company provide industry standard benefits unless they have to, especially to such an apathetic group.

The problem as I see it is that so many of the previous ALPA crowd base their support on emotion. Have I been screwed by ALPA? Well I would say I got screwed by my own MEC repeatedly but not ALPA national. I think ALPA national has failed in the past but after 911 I shudder to think what this industry would like if every carrier was living under the direct relationship.

I think we have a great group of guys and gals at JetBlue. I look forward to union representation and many of these great folks getting involved. We have a great opportunity if we vote in ALPA, we have a chance to shape our union how we want it to look. Instead of wallowing in the past I look to the future and hope we could model our union after great examples like FedEx. Again I say doing nothing and living with status quo will yield just that. It's time to move forward.

 

[Lake Alice]

You can argue the merits of the CBA versus the PEA regarding merger/acquisitions all day long and, honestly, no one knows how the PEA will be interpreted until said transactional event occurs. Jetblue has its opinion and the pilot group has it's own. The 3A issue has made most of us tremendously skeptical as to how leadership would handle a merger and hence the push for ALPA. But back to my original point. You can argue the merits of both angles for many issues but facts are facts regarding retirement and benefits. Jetblue pilots cannot get an industry standard retirement without a CBA and because of Jetblues "culture" we cannot change our health benefits. Rob Maruster has stated in the monthly conference calls, which also have transcripts, there are work a rounds for all these issues but "they are too expensive". In most of our opinons this leaves no other option. ALPA at Jetblue is not ALPA at United. We are not out to kill the company. All we are after is a fair retirement and a fair benefits package. Jetblue on its own is not currently willing to provide the pilots with these benefits.

 

[mozzer]

You can argue the merits of the CBA versus the PEA regarding merger/acquisitions all day long and, honestly, no one knows how the PEA will be interpreted until said transactional event occurs. Jetblue has its opinion and the pilot group has it's own. The 3A issue has made most of us tremendously skeptical as to how leadership would handle a merger and hence the push for ALPA. But back to my original point. You can argue the merits of both angles for many issues but facts are facts regarding retirement and benefits. Jetblue pilots cannot get an industry standard retirement without a CBA and because of Jetblues "culture" we cannot change our health benefits. Rob Maruster has stated in the monthly conference calls, which also have transcripts, there are work a rounds for all these issues but "they are too expensive". In most of our opinons this leaves no other option. ALPA at Jetblue is not ALPA at United. We are not out to kill the company. All we are after is a fair retirement and a fair benefits package. Jetblue on its own is not currently willing to provide the pilots with these benefits.

Well said. Card sent.

 

[pilotyip]

All we are after is a fair retirement and a fair benefits package. Jetblue on its own is not currently willing to provide the pilots with these benefits.

Who determines fair, the UAW thought they were being fair with the big three, starting wages now $14/hr as opposed to $28/hr when fairness was the goal.

 

[B6Busdriver]

Who determines fair, the UAW thought they were being fair with the big three, starting wages now $14/hr as opposed to $28/hr when fairness was the goal.

Fair is at least industry standard and we are at 30% behind.

 

[Lake Alice]

That's a good question and industry standard is the obvious answer. Aside from that each pilot group makes up it's own mind what they feel is important. As Jetblue pilots we are not asking for a United contract. We are asking for benefits that better protect our pilots. Some issues considered industry standard are not in the best interest of our pilot group while others are. I see the intent of your UAW comparison however it's not apples to apples. As Jetblue pilots we actually provide a very good service whereas the UAW was the worst in every measurable category. Maybe there is some bias there but should you not be rewarded for a good job? And however subjective that reward may be it is open to negotiation, an ability we do not have. All we have is a "direct relationship".

 

[boomlrd]

Who determines fair, the UAW thought they were being fair with the big three, starting wages now $14/hr as opposed to $28/hr when fairness was the goal.

You think you guys are 30% behind, Spirit is way further behind! We are the only union to ever return to work from a STRIKE without ratifying a TA, much less even seeing the concessionary contract, thanks SPAMEC!

 

[pilotyip]

Fair is at least industry standard and we are at 30% behind.

What if JB can not match industry std and remain profitable? Here is how the UAW does it; they reach a deal with a single company, then go to the next company and say match it or you will be shutdown and all the new cars being sold will be built someplace else, then they go to the next company and repeat. When the auto companies where rolling in money it was a good deal for all. But over the last 30 years it has eliminated 70% of the union jobs, gave great raise to non-union companies, and now it is concession time. Now the Airlines could follow the same path as the UAW and it would be great for 30% of those who still had jobs. This is also great for the non-ALPA airlines that would fly all the passengers when the ALPA pilots were on strike. So you on stike to get what you want. Or go the UAL way and delay flights?