JetBlue Trashes Pilot Loyalty

[SpeedBird]

AKAAB:

I have to agree with you that D3 have taken the right step here and moved in a direction that is consistent with their prior actions (excluding this latest faux pas). I am interested to see what specific issues will be modified/changed, but I have to agree that 190 pay rates will most likely see no changes until the aircraft are flying revenue flights for at least a year. If jetBlue knocks the cover off the ball then pay rates will move up accordingly. The focus must be on making changes to pay rates that lag demonstrated profit margins that fall in the 10%-15% range. This ensures that the airline's financial health remains the first priority.

Schwanker:

jetBlue pilots have no formal process in place (yet) to sit down with jetBlue management and discuss such labor agreements prior to putting pen to paper. This latest episode will more than likely change that going forward. Despite being a non-union carrier jetBlue pilots had a great opportunity to voice their concerns in a non-retribution environment and IMO there was a productive exchange between the two groups. BTW, while there is no DB pension plan at jetBlue we do have company-matched 401Ks and profit sharing contributions that any responsible pilot would use to build up a nice retirement fund that is truly portable and protected when the time comes to pull chocks and retire.

 

[airbaker]

While we're not allowed to copy and paste the contents of the "apology" letter (due to our nondisclosure and computer network policy agreements), I will say that I was very impressed with the content. It was a humble apology that addressed their deficencies in communicating changes to the agreement. I know I don't speak for everyone, but I continue to be impressed with their leadership abilities. True leaders recognize when they've made mistakes, analyze and address them, and then move forward.

I think we're going to be an even stronger company moving forward. I have no doubt that our compensation levels will continue to increase. But priority number one is to ensure that we have a viable business model in this extremely competitive industry (not to mention escalating energy prices). I'm not saying that I wouldn't love to make $210/hour - but I'd rather have a sustained career with a healthy carrier; one that can continue to generate 10%-15% operating margins.

 

[iflynights]

While it was a nice explanation to the contract, I don't know that helped. They say they did a poor job managing expectations, but still are not going to give us a pay raise. Kinda of, "thanks for telling us what you didn't like, but we aren't going to change it or make you sign it."

Again, a nice letter, but no real content...

 

[banger]

Keep the faith

iflynights
Yea I'll have to agree, nicely worded letter with no real indication of what to expect. It's a start though and I'll keep the faith.

 

[Dizel8]

iflynights,

This may comes across as harsh, but why hang around, why not just quit? Not when something better comes along, just quit now and be happy that you are no longer associated with jetblue.

No one said this would be a cake walk, or that roses has no thorns. This is, regardless of the success achieved, still a upstart carrier and as such, things happen. Yes, we could be paid more, yes the 190 scale is low, yes reserve is getting longer, yes, yes whatever you conceive to be a problem.

So, just get over it. Don't like it here, don't think it will change, don't think it is worth it, be off to FDX, SWA, AAI, be happy and content, enjoy life.

Don't spend your life being unhappy, go find what makes you happy! Leave jetblue to the people who thinks this company has tremendous potential, something you obviously do not believe in.

I wish you the very best of luck and I mean that sincerely!

 

[NYRANGERS]

iflynights,

This may comes across as harsh, but why hang around, why not just quit? Not when something better comes along, just quit now and be happy that you are no longer associated with jetblue.

No one said this would be a cake walk, or that roses has no thorns. This is, regardless of the success achieved, still a upstart carrier and as such, things happen. Yes, we could be paid more, yes the 190 scale is low, yes reserve is getting longer, yes, yes whatever you conceive to be a problem.

So, just get over it. Don't like it here, don't think it will change, don't think it is worth it, be off to FDX, SWA, AAI, be happy and content, enjoy life.

Don't spend your life being unhappy, go find what makes you happy! Leave jetblue to the people who thinks this company has tremendous potential, something you obviously do not believe in.

I wish you the very best of luck and I mean that sincerely!

Just out of morbid curiostiy. What action will you take when something you don't like comes along and a fellow jb pilots gives you the same advice? This profession (soon to be hobby, at this rate) cannot survive with the new pilot attitude of "IF you don't like it, you can leave."

So sad what a few years has done to this profession.

 

[Dizel8]

"Just out of morbid curiostiy. What action will you take when something you don't like comes along and a fellow jb pilots gives you the same advice?"

I would go find my happiness someplace else. Bitching on a BB, while perhaps liberating, will get you squat. The saying goes: Lead, follow or get out of the way!

If iflynights, or myself for that matter, believes that the grass is so much greener on the other side, then go get it. I had a couple of leads overseas , but having applied a bit of thought to the whole thing, I decided that jetblue was much to be preferred. That is just me, and iflynights feels different about the future of jetblue, so he should find what makes him happy.

If someone was bitching up a storm about DAL, what would you say? Heck, if I am not wrong, you are on furlough, yet you still believe in the company and wants to see it prosper. I find that to be an honorable trait and shows me the integrity of the DAL employees. Needless to say, I would hope for the same in the people who I work with!

 

[NYRANGERS]

"
If someone was bitching up a storm about DAL, what would you say? Heck, if I am not wrong, you are on furlough, yet you still believe in the company and wants to see it prosper. I find that to be an honorable trait and shows me the integrity of the DAL employees. Needless to say, I would hope for the same in the people who I work with!

I understand where you are comming from. With regards to Delta, I do feel there is a need for us to give, as does my union. However, my company thinks they need $1.02 Billion and we think around $700-$800 Million. If we applied your logic at Delta, thousands of Delta pilots would have to quit, because we don't agree with the $1.02 Billion number. We have a voice that our company has to hear, then both sides take rational measures to try and do what is best for the company. It is not an all or nothing, take it or leave it approach.

It sounds like the guys at your company are taking a very calm and rational approach to dissenting over the EMB-190 rates. If you take a, "If you don't like it you can leave" approach, your voice is not heard and your company may not understand your concerns. This results in feelings of under appreciation etc, etc and may do more damage to your company then voicing displeasure.

Either way, it sounds like JB management got the message and will do what they can to keep you guys happy. I believe the success of your company lies in the relationships of employees and management and as importantly, the favorable eyes of wall street. It may be that the only way for JB to show a profit when the EMB-190 comes, is to pay these wages. It would not bode well for JB to show a loss, your success is deeply tied to a favorable credit rating.

I don't think management would risk thier relationship with employees unless it meant they were worried about the future and couldn't pay higher rates. Although, I don't think an airline deserves to operate the EMB-190 at those rates. There always will be a "relative" bottom pay rate in this industry, it just comes as a shock that it is at your company and at that rate.

Either way, I wish you luck and happiness,

NYR (I know, I know, the Rangers suck.....they hardly have a roster anymore. It's a rebuilding decade)

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

Latest note today from Dave Barger has rescinded the new contract... They heard enough from the pilots and they responded accordingly-- an adendum to the old contract is in the works, but I believe the pay rates are going to stay the same...

 

[side stick-n]

Dizel8,

I believe you speak for the majority of the pilots at JetBlue. I don't want anyone to stay here if they are unhappy with the company or the job. I would like to ask iflynights to continue to provide the level of service our customers have come to enjoy until he finds employment elsewhere. That would be the honorable thing to do.



I have put my complete trust in D2 and Al from the beginning and I don’t plan on changing that view now but will only change the tag to D3 and Al. The fact that our A320 pay was an industry low didn’t bother anyone when we started over 4 years ago. We were a nobody; a start-up carrier that everyone thought would disappear in a matter of months. Those rates gave us the ability to be competitive immediately and profitable in a very few months. As we added aircraft to the fleet and were able to generate additional revenue, we were able to increase the pay rate for that aircraft. There is NO doubt in my mind that the same will hold true for the EMB190. The only problem now is that we are no longer an airline wannabe but a major carrier that is perceived by the legacy carriers as a threat to their way of life.



I see these rates as an extremely smart move. Many here have stated that there is no way they would fly a 100-seat jet for those rates. If that’s the case, it would appear the chances of any major adding these aircraft to their fleet has diminished considerably. Why buy them and put them in service if you can’t find anyone to fly them at competitive rates? Additionally, why isn’t Chautauqua being hounded as much or more for accepting rates even lower than ours? You can bet they would be willing to fly them as someone’s regional partner.



So NYRANGERS, YES, I’m taking a VERY calm and rational approach to these 190 rates AND any new employment agreement. To date, D3 and Al have never let us down. They have always been honest and sincere. They have admitted their mistakes and have always done the right thing in the end. How can we NOT keep faith in a management team that will award the group a large pay raise at a time of recession and economic trouble as they did after 9/11. At the same time, almost every other airline was either actively furloughing or planning to. All of this with an employment agreement that guaranteed NO pilot furlough for the life of the agreement. It’s called TRUST. I can understand why it is impossible for “most” other airline pilots to trust their management. If I were them, I wouldn’t either. Because of this, I can understand why there are “some” JetBlue pilots that are having a very hard time trusting D3 and Al. It will be interesting to see those pilots’ views three years from now.

 

[iflynights]

Sorry guys,

I've have never been much of a sheep. While I am looking for other work, unfortunately, I need to feed the family. I don't believe it will be that long, so don't worry. I am definitely not the only person that thinks we are selling out the industry while keeping the company at 15% profit margins. If you are happy about it, fine.. You can continue "having faith" and so forth, but while they recinded the new contract, they are doing anything about the most important thing... Pay, or lack thereof.

There is a slow move towards two factions at JB. People hired with the very low priced options and people hired over the last year and a half or so. It will be interesting how it turns out...

 

[AKAAB]

Factions at JetBlue? Give it a rest - unless you feel it's you versus everyone else. You may be right on that point.

I'm sorry you feel you were so maligned when you were offered a job at JetBlue. Please do whatever you need to do to be fulfilled in your life; just don't pretend the rest of the pilot group feels the way you do.

I wonder... if the stock price was still in the stratosphere, would you be a happier camper or would you be talking about "factions"? How about putting that argument on the back burner and think about all the other pilots desperately trying to find a way to keep feeding their families.

Have a little humility, man! You have something others probably deserve as much as you - a job at a growing airline that doesn't bounce checks or furlough.

AKAAB
"on-on"

 

[8vATE]

I too have noticed that people's "expectations" are changing...

Some of these guys were told Southwest pay by Al and others...
Since 2000.... SW pay has increased drastically...

Al and others really put their foots in their mouths when they did that..
They should have never tied our pay to a competitors...
Now .. .SW captain pay is in the 180/ hr range... and some of these
knuckleheads think we should be making that...

Mgt dropped the ball when they didn't see the disconnect in people's expectations and the reality of maintaining our cost structure...

It comes down to the old airline pilot axiom....
Look out for number one (me) ...
and
Greed....

Everyone that works for jetBlue and those considering it should know up front..
You're never going to make an industry leading rate...

Hopefully...
You will be happy with your FULL compensation package.. your job security ...
your leaders.... and have a fun time....

But we need to recognize our part in the business strategy and plan...

In regard to those guys that got hired and their options are underwater...
That really blows and should be addressed... how ....? I don't know...
Some of those guys really got nailed when the stock ran up ....
Their exercise prices are up there in the stratosphere...

Personally...

This place is trying really hard to live up to the core values...
I am hopeful that it will...
But there's always a 5-10% that want to crap on everything and everyone...

 

[Flying Freddie]

Sorry guys,

I've have never been much of a sheep. While I am looking for other work, unfortunately, I need to feed the family. I don't believe it will be that long, so don't worry. I am definitely not the only person that thinks we are selling out the industry while keeping the company at 15% profit margins. If you are happy about it, fine.. You can continue "having faith" and so forth, but while they recinded the new contract, they are doing anything about the most important thing... Pay, or lack thereof.

There is a slow move towards two factions at JB. People hired with the very low priced options and people hired over the last year and a half or so. It will be interesting how it turns out...

Where are you going to go?

 

[FedExpert]

Iflynights,

Just shut up and drink the coolaid. Some of these bluies are like some of our retired military guys. They have no spine and are just trying to hold on to what they have now, not caring about who comes after or about getting their share of the profits (give it to the execs instead, that will keep them until hard times). These bluies only say love it or leave it or no union on our property ever. Questioning your boss' descisions should be your right, just as it is your collective choice to have a union or not.

 

[colorado418]

Options???

So now it is the options...

We are upset because the options that the company GAVE us, are not worth so much now.

So I guess we are looking at the short term. We wanted to vest them and cash them out right away? We did not want to let them ride and split? We did not want to look at the long term value of said options?

I would be real curious to know how much time the "blue aid drinking, accept anything the company says" guys have here at JetBlue versus the "My options suck, the rates are too low, I want another job" guys.

I have been here since Jan. 02. There. Happy? I fall into the "blue aid drinking crowd and I love it. I have seen this management "do the right thing" for some time.
I also flew at Allegheny prior to here. Take that for what you want. I have seen how management can "do all the wrong" things.

I do not have fears about the rates of the EMB-190. Do I think they are low? YES. Do I think they will come up? I think that when the aircraft comes on line in revenue in October 2005, the company will look at the revenue that it can produce and adjust rates accordling.

It bothers me to see how much negativity I see coming from the computers of current B6 pilots. Did you not know what was in store when you signed up? Or is it that it does not live up to the standards of what your former carrier had? Or has it been your dream ever since you went into the military flying that you would come out to the civilian world and land the perfect job at a "major"?

If you don't like it here, or any other place, you owe it to yourself, those you work with and your employer to seek work elsewhere. Don't make it miserable for others to come to work.

Well, I am losing my balance so I will step off my little soap box for now.

 

[V2+10]

You know, it’s really funny when you look back at the posts on this board over the years. Let’s see…JetBlue won’t make it past 1 year. JetBlue won’t make it past 2 years. JetBlue won’t make it past 3 years. You just wait until 4 years. Just like Peoples. Just like Florida Express. Just like Midway. Just like…well you get the point.



JetBlue is not, and never has been, “just like”. I think that’s the difference. It’s true that many startups have gone to the graveyard. JetBlue is trying hard not to repeat that trend. Sometimes being different is not so bad (including pay). Sustainability and long term survivability are unique in this industry. JetBlue is trying very hard to be one of the very few “survivors” in this crazy business. Maybe by not repeating, or following what other carriers have done in the past, just might ensure a company that still exists when it’s time to retire. It sure beats the alternative.





V2

 

[buzzer]

V2+10, Good points. It's easy for so many to predict what they want from the privacy of their computers. The sentiment about the low pay though, I share. I feel like it's, score one for your airline but minus one for your profession. I have absolutely no hate for your airline. I hope you and all of us in this profession, do and live well.