JetBlue Scope FAIL.

[kellwolf]

Liberal judges huh.....

Well yeah good to know....

Let me guess; it was the "liberal" NMB that never released anyone either. Right?

It was the "liberals" that wanted cabbotage in this country.

Despite the outcome, Spirit just got released not long ago. That must have been a very conservative NMB! Wouldn't you agree?

Same NMB isn't releasing Pinnacle after 5+ years of negotiations and hardly any movement whatsoever. In fact, we're on ice. I'd say that cancels out the Spirit "success story."

 

[P38JLightning]

Exactly. And if anyone points that out the NMB (or whoever) can say "yeah, but Spirit was released, so it's all fair." They have to release someone every once in a while no matter which administration appointed them.

 

[MINIME]

Listen, I agree that it's still not perfect. Not by a long shot! This is still a political game. These politicians all take money from the same basket.

But if you've been paying attention, some airlines have made progress. Alaska, Hawaiian, and now AirTran. I know AirTran is still not done but they are making better progress than they were a year ago. Some of it has to do with the NMB, and some of it may be due to having more competent representation. That's my understanding at least.

As for PCL, I don't exactly know what happenned there. But I'll bet this had more to do with the internal structure not appearing in tune. Who knows? I agree however, it was bull that they got parked. That just emboldened management even more. I'm sure the ATA was jumping for joy.

Airlines got away with murder with the last administration's appointments. Courts always seemed to rule in favor of management. Pensions and negotiating capital was basically taken away. Labor was essentially powerless to put up any legal fights against takebacks or any other labor busting moves. Let alone negotiate respectable contracts. It is what it is. But I'm open to data that suggests otherwise.

We'll see if the NMB releases FLL. They are a bigger group that has been negotiating for a long time. I believe that will be a good indicator where the NMB truly is.

 

[MINIME]

Oh! My opologies to the Jetblue guys/gals for the thread highjack.

If you want my sometimes uninformed opinion; I think you may need a union in the not so distant future. For many reasons. Scope and mergers come to mind.

 

[tailhookah]

Liberal-

There are many meanings for this word. Not just the political stance we are bombarded w/ today. Below are a few, which I used the term in my context. Open up your minds to the fact that everything isn't always what you think it is. Like the closed mindedness of some over the organization of Alpa... Alpa is only as good as the individual MEC's.

Other meanings of the defined word "liberal":

having political or social views favoring reform and progress
tolerant of change; not bound by authoritarianism, orthodoxy, or tradition

Especially the second bullet... the judges were unorthodox to our contracts and were tolerant of change of those contracts against the tradition of airline contracts... what happend under the "guise" of Force Majeure was unorthodox and we all got set back at least a decade in pay and work rules.

Force Majeure should not have been used as a factor to continue furloughs well into 2002, 2003 and beyond. It shouldn't have also been a factor used in BK courts to rape and pillage the contracts.

Tailhookah

 

[Hair-on-Fire]

Force Majeure should not have been used as a factor to continue furloughs well into 2002, 2003 and beyond. It shouldn't have also been a factor used in BK courts to rape and pillage the contracts.

Tailhookah

Was it? Weren't they using Bankruptcy law and the authority of the Bankruptcy court to modify contracts?

I look at Liberal as meaning "Progressive" without the negative connotation FOX has thrown on it. Although I guess that means Conservative = Regressive then. jk

 

[hecbir]

jet blue q 400 in sju?

 

[tailhookah]

I look at Liberal as meaning "Progressive" without the negative connotation FOX has thrown on it. Although I guess that means Conservative = Regressive then. jk

That's the problem these days. Everyone has their outlook only and will not do any research to fact check or to see something from a different perspective.

Just like this whole "Alpa sucks" phrase I hear so much. Yet it's a very naive statement to make, usually made by people whose very jobs were either saved by Alpa or at least while they had those "Alpa" jobs were made much better because of Alpa. When they lost those "Alpa" jobs they were probably given much more due to Alpa's veil then they would've had w/o Alpa.

When your house burns down, you may not totally like the payout you get from your insurance compnay but it still will help you rebuild your old house, pay for your stay in a hotel and put new clothes and food on your table. It may not get you back to where you were, but it'll get you back on your feet and protect your family in the meantime. But just like a CBA, insurance is what you pay for or negotiate w/ your agent.

Alpa is the same way. Any court of law can overturn any contract. It depends on how liberally the judge feels to modify "said" contract. Notice that I just used that "word" in a non-political setting!

So in the end, there are many different meanings and interpretations on everything. Just because you don't like FOX News doesn't mean you are a Democrat or vice/versa...

We all got hosed by the legal system after 9/11. If we all had some unity and backed our brothers in all companies under a single union, we'd all be better off. Have any of you ever picketed w/ another pilot or flight attendant group from another airline? I have...

If we were smarter, we'd all join Alpa... even SWAPA guys and IBT and all those other in-house unions. The rising tide would float all our boats and we'd all be better off in the long run.

Tailhookah

 

[Neubyfly]

jet blue q 400 in sju?

They will be flown by Eagle.

 

[PHXFLYR]

vote early vote often

Any representation is better than no representation.

...unless it's USAPA.


PHXFLYR