Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Friendliest aviation Ccmmunity on the web
  • Modern site for PC's, Phones, Tablets - no 3rd party apps required
  • Ask questions, help others, promote aviation
  • Share the passion for aviation
  • Invite everyone to Flightinfo.com and let's have fun

JetBlue Scope FAIL.

Welcome to Flightinfo.com

  • Register now and join the discussion
  • Modern secure site, no 3rd party apps required
  • Invite your friends
  • Share the passion of aviation
  • Friendliest aviation community on the web


Ndugu's Foster Dad
Nov 27, 2001
I wrestled with posting this update on a public forum. After reaching a limit of frustration, I thought some of you may like to see how it is our "Direct Relationship" is working at JetBlue. We are in the era of Republic Airlines. A company that has successfully replaced a brand of flying with crews that are far less expensive.

At JetBlue, we have no Scope protections. Our Pilot Values Committee has approached management seeking legally binding language protecting pilot jobs. The Company has been unwilling to protect the pilots. Instead, they have offered the following:

..."management suggested a culturally based proposal for dealing with scope issues, meaning that scope language would not be enforceable or binding in a court of law. The PVC co-chairs determined that this concept was unacceptable. Scope language that is not enforceable… is not scope language. The company does not want scope language restrictive to the extent that it would inhibit growth opportunities, however, the changes and flexibility needed to advance those opportunities would need full agreement with the PVC in order to provide a positive outcome for both the pilot group and the company."

"A culturally based proposal" means that we take the company's word that they wouldn't farm out flying to cheaper folks. That's it. Take their word. Dont' worry! Trust us!

The very idea that they would even suggest this as a solution is spectacular. What's more, they also know they have the support of an element of pilots that so don't want to disrupt their own 'good thing' that they felt comfortable making this offer.

Most of the members of our PVC seem to have their hearts in the right place. Unfortunately, what we need now is something more than the toothless bite they can only offer.

With this post, my name has been added to whatever list Forest Hills may be compiling these days, so with that let me say:

Hi Jenny

Hi Dean

vote early vote often

Any representation is better than no representation.
I am not kicking myself over consciously avoiding persueing a job there. (can't call it a career when it is a 5 year one way deal)

I do wish you guys the best!

Also, much respek for your E-190 rates! They are really good considering what else is out there in that A/C type.
Awesome that you posted that!! Anyone that still thinks we don't need/require representation is literally out of their collective minds!!!!

The company asking for this is actually a great thing...it should push a lot of fence sitters over.

Let's not forget that they shrugged off giving us a scope clause as no big deal and something they would do very quickly at no cost to the company. They told us it was a no-brainer, freebie they could easily give the pilot group.

That was three years ago.

We'll be ALPA by the Spring - unless SWAPA steps in and offers to create a national LCCPA (Low Cost Carrier Pilots' Association).
Wow... what a slap in the face or a "kick in the teeth", to quote Dave B. Like it was posted above, this has been an on going process filled w/ passed deadlines and broken promises. To finally come out and say that we'll give you "culturally based" SCOPE is such an insult. If you aren't completely convinced now that the "direct relationship" is worthless than I give up on you. You are unreachable if you can't read between the lines on this one.

We've been promised for years about forthcoming SCOPE protection. How the company wants to give us industry leading SCOPE protection because they know it's very important to us and our careers. They want to give us a secure future that will benefit all. SCOPE was that carrot dangled out in front that kept luring us deeper and deeper into the abyss of the "direct relationship".

Everyone that's semi-conscious should now see that bright light in the tunnel. If we don't act soon that light will be a freight train coming to steam roll our futures in the form of a buyout or drastic changes to our flimsy "direct relationship" contracts!

See the light fellow Jetblue Pilots! We are being played on a monumental level and the time is now to act!

Don't forget all of the points of the email:

They want culture based scope? (WTF is that? Jetblue created term? It is just a promise that they will honor the PVC vote. Yet management has proven it will violate that provision over and over, latest example was the new FSM)

They want to add "Force Majeure" language (act of god that would hurt or disable the comopany) to our PEAs. (That gives them the right to furlough/terminate when ever they want to. In addition, we have no furlough provisions in our PEA, thus it would be termination.

They want to create a new PVC charter so that the PVC can survivie any type of management/tranactional event. (the committee with no power or ablity to affect anything survives. No power before = no power after the event. This is the committee protecting itself, not the pilots)

Just about every issue is a lose/lose for the pilots. I just hope the koolaid drinkers and BOOBs see all of this for what it is! (no protections, and the removal of what few protections we do currently have). I hope they see that the only real protections are with a union and CBA.

Just my opinion......

Last edited:
Because DASH 8 Q-400's for SJU are on the discussion agenda as we speak. Denial is a trait the JB pilot group is very good at.

Latest resources