JetBlue Q

[hydrarkt]

I'm a 6 year NJA pilot. I make about $98k before per diem, OT etc. I figure about $110 after all is said and done this year. 50% 401kmatch. full, free health. I work 7 on 7 off with 3 weeks of vacation (which is actually 9 weeks). I can start work at any decent sized airport (though I use BOS now).
I just got a call from JBA asking if I was still interested. I said "yes." I have friends who turned down JBA to stay at NJA after we got the new contract.

You folks at JBA that left the frax or anyone with an intelligent observation: would you leave NJA for JBA?? ps... I'm 39.

 

[radarlove]

Well, same advice as always. Do you commute now? Will you commute then? That should answer your question.

 

[starvingredtail]

I can tell you that JB really believes in itself and that it is pretty cool being here (of course thats only been a week) and from top to bottom it is like nothing I have seen before in this industry. I left NWA after 8 years for a place that is great to work. It sounds like you have a good gig at Net Jets. Good luck on the decision.

 

[crjdude]

I also got the call from Jetblue today and I'm basically in the exact same boat. NJA, making good money for the first time, great benefits, and I actually like my job. But nothing lasts forever.....

What I'd like to do is politely decline without forever closing the door.

Any advice on how to do this?


crjdude

 

[RideandDrive]

I wouldn't leave NJA to go to jetblue based on my experiences.

 

[banger]

I also got the call from Jetblue today and I'm basically in the exact same boat. NJA, making good money for the first time, great benefits, and I actually like my job. But nothing lasts forever.....

What I'd like to do is politely decline without forever closing the door.

Any advice on how to do this?


crjdude

crj, If your happy stay where you are. I enjoy JB but it has risks like everywhere else. If your in place and happy then "a bird in the hand" thing applies. And to bail out gracefully is easy..be honest sincere, tell the truth and JB will understand. You can then go back into the stack without prejudice.
Best of luck to you! ---Banger

 

[K-Mart]

I also got the call from Jetblue today and I'm basically in the exact same boat. NJA, making good money for the first time, great benefits, and I actually like my job. But nothing lasts forever.....

What I'd like to do is politely decline without forever closing the door.

Any advice on how to do this?


crjdude

Tough choice here. If you decline, you probably will not get a second chance. What it boils down to is what you and your family want to do. Honestly, I'd stay at Netjets. I am assuming you're a captain at NJ so I would probably stay. Do you really want to commute to JFK??

 

[wndshr]

I'm a 6 year NJA pilot. I make about $98k before per diem, OT etc. I figure about $110 after all is said and done this year. 50% 401kmatch. full, free health. I work 7 on 7 off with 3 weeks of vacation (which is actually 9 weeks). I can start work at any decent sized airport (though I use BOS now).
I just got a call from JBA asking if I was still interested. I said "yes." I have friends who turned down JBA to stay at NJA after we got the new contract.

You folks at JBA that left the frax or anyone with an intelligent observation: would you leave NJA for JBA?? ps... I'm 39.

NO! i think the trick in aviation is to find a place you "remotely" like working at...AND STAY! especially if it is a seniority based system. there will ALWAYS be greener pastures out there and there will always be a better job somewhere...but you will never establish yourself or your family if you keep jumping to greener pastures. inevitably those greener pastures are replaced with other greener pastures every "six" years! same thing with marriage...you get the 7 year itch...maybe try to replace the wife on a newer model and inherit all the problems of the old wife in addition to the new and more prominent problems of the new wife.

better plan...use those 7 days off to start a biz outside of flying!

 

[Chronic Jetlag]

seniority numbers

I'm a 6 year NJA pilot. I make about $98k before per diem, OT etc. I figure about $110 after all is said and done this year. 50% 401kmatch. full, free health. I work 7 on 7 off with 3 weeks of vacation (which is actually 9 weeks). I can start work at any decent sized airport (though I use BOS now).
I just got a call from JBA asking if I was still interested. I said "yes." I have friends who turned down JBA to stay at NJA after we got the new contract.

You folks at JBA that left the frax or anyone with an intelligent observation: would you leave NJA for JBA?? ps... I'm 39.

You may find the following fact useful in making your decision. Current fleet size: 90 busses, 11 190s, if all goes well, there'll be 233 total busses and 200 total 190s by around 2013. 7.3 crews per planes as promised by management equals 1700 total bus captains and 1460 total 190 captains. We have roughly 1470 total pilots on the master seniority list as of last week. This means most of all the future bus captains are already hired. No much retirement with a young pilot work force, lots of guys/gals in their 30s and 40s. The pay difference is around $40/hour between the bus and 190 captain. I've been here around 1.5 years and have moved up only about 20 numbers.
If you're not on the property within the next 3 months or so you won't see the left seat of the bus for at least 5-6 years. I hope this little factoid helps. Good luck to you. We're about the same age, do you have kids to feed?

 

[Stealthh21]

There is no grass.

 

[On Your Six]

I would stay at NJA

Personally, I'd stay at NJA. True, things change, but both NJA and JetBlue could change for the worse in the future - you never know... NJA at least is not impacted by the skyrocketing oil costs (passes along costs to owners).

I think you need to ask yourself a series of questions and be true to yourself:

1. Why do you want to fly for a 121 carrier? Is it because you have big airplane envy? Some people do... Or is it because of perceived "security" in 121 operations? We know most airlines aren't secure anymore...

2. Do you want to be on reserve again? Do you mind commuting again?

3. Do you want to fly the same routes over and over again? Some people like a routine and consistency (not a bad thing necessarily).

4. Do you mind working in a non-union environment with fewer protections afforded to you at NJA? Some people prefer not to associate with unions.

5. Will you mind returning to a non-fractional schedule (no longer 7/7)? Some people don't like the 7/7 schedule while others love it.

Personally, I think flying a Falcon 2000, Galaxy or Sovereign on a 7/7 schedule to anywhere in the country (or even abroad) from a domicile near your home for a great salary would be difficult to beat. I know Jet Blue pilots who love and hate the airline - but you can't please everyone and no airline is perfect...

Tough decision - let us know what you decide in the end. Good luck!

 

[Longhorn]

What jetlag said is right on the money. Same shoes as he. Been at JB about 1 year and 2 months and there is not much movement. I was number 975 when hired now I am 969...whooo hooo (sorry, I like the number) So it depends on you QOL and comfort level now. Personally, I am very happy I made the move. We have a few bumps to get over but I think we will be fine in the long run. Good luck on whichever decision you make.

Longhorn

 

[exphojump]

I imagine the Netjets 80 million dollar pretax loss for 2005 is a factor in your decision. However, with your union contract and 6 years seniority you should be safe if Netjets shrinks or stalls in the near future.

Jetblue has a lot of issues to overcome in the next 2 years. They have the choice to continue their hyper-growth strategy or slow down. In order to continue their hyper-growth they have suggested diluting their stock. This may only accelerate the losses if they cannot generate more revenue. On the other hand if they slow down, their costs will rise. Kind of damned if they do damned if they don't.

JetBlue fleet growth:
2005 69 - 92 aircraft +33% and a loss of 24 million pretax
2006 92 - 127 aircraft +38%
2007 127 - 162 aircraft + 28%

Airtran fleet growth
2006 105 - 123 aircraft +17%
2007 123 - 142 aircraft +15%

The big question is how reliable will the 190 be the first year or two? The legacies will attack with double miles, more flights, more reliable RJs, and better networks. Long term it should be a good aircraft, but JetBlue is betting a lot on out of the box reliability. Plus, how much advantage are the TV screens on shorter hops like JFK/BOS?

38% growth this year. Delta is beefing up in JFK, USair is being run by capable management (bringing CRJ900s to the east coast), United has killed Independence and looking for a new bone to chew, Continental and American have reliable and extensive RJ networks in the Northeast. This year is likely to be harder than last year for JetBlue.

If your are going to switch to airline I would suggest Southwest and perhaps Airtran.

I like JetBlue, but dislike their hyper-growth and second type. The growth rate and the increasingly competitive market make JetBlue a gamble for newhires, IMO.

 

[G4G5]

I am the exact same age and I would stay.

Every type rating you get at Netjets is an investment in your future. Job security. Something that is marketable on the outside, if you wish to leave. An A320 or a ERJ190 type rating guarantees you a starting spot on the bottom of the next airlines seniority list. The next airline values nothing you learned at the previous one. Or are you of the belief that you can make it 21-26 years with the same carrier.

Ask around. You just don't find that many guys that spent an entire career with one carrier and retired with everything that they thought the airline career would be. The days of Pan Am pilots getting treated like rock stars will never return. Just look how far this profession has degraded in the last 21 years. Do you think it will get better in the next 21?

Jet blue is an airline. Good, bad or indifferent, it's an airline. If that's what you desire then so be it but for me, flying the same type of equipment for the next 21 (and in all probability 26) years bouncing around the greater 48 for is more like a sentence then it is a career.

The airline life style of the pre 9-11 era will never return. I made the mistake of leaving a really good corporate job back when everyone was hiring. Been there done that, got the uniform. FYI, half the time I spent in the cockpit was wasted explaining why I left a good corporate job for an airline.

Eventually you will move into the long haul G4/5 or Boeing BBJ and see the rest of the world if you desire, or at least it's an option. You'll see airports that aren't even in the typically airline pilots wish list. How many times do you want to do ILS to 31L or R at JFK? 500? A thouand?

If domestic is your thing a Falcon 2000 is a pretty sweet ride. Guys who think that Canarsie approach is fun, don't do ASE in the winter time or never did the checker board at Hong Kong (now that was cool) and never will.

I am not ripping Jetblue, I wouldn't leave for SWA or anyone else.

The question is real simple, do you want an airline lifestyle? Or do you like what you are doing? If you like what you are doing it's tuff to make it better but it's easy to make it worse.

 

[On Your Six]

I am the exact same age and I would stay.

Every type rating you get at Netjets is an investment in your future. Job security. Something that is marketable on the outside, if you wish to leave. An A320 or a ERJ190 type rating guarantees you a starting spot on the bottom of the next airlines seniority list. The next airline values nothing you learned at the previous one. Or are you of the belief that you can make it 21-26 years with the same carrier.

Ask around. You just don't find that many guys that spent an entire career with one carrier and retired with everything that they thought the airline career would be. The days of Pan Am pilots getting treated like rock stars will never return. Just look how far this profession has degraded in the last 21 years. Do you think it will get better in the next 21?

Jet blue is an airline. Good, bad or indifferent, it's an airline. If that's what you desire then so be it but for me, flying the same type of equipment for the next 21 (and in all probability 26) years bouncing around the greater 48 for is more like a sentence then it is a career.

The airline life style of the pre 9-11 era will never return. I made the mistake of leaving a really good corporate job back when everyone was hiring. Been there done that, got the uniform. FYI, half the time I spent in the cockpit was wasted explaining why I left a good corporate job for an airline.

Eventually you will move into the long haul G4/5 or Boeing BBJ and see the rest of the world if you desire, or at least it's an option. You'll see airports that aren't even in the typically airline pilots wish list. How many times do you want to do ILS to 31L or R at JFK? 500? A thouand?

If domestic is your thing a Falcon 2000 is a pretty sweet ride. Guys who think that Canarsie approach is fun, don't do ASE in the winter time or never did the checker board at Hong Kong (now that was cool) and never will.

I am not ripping Jetblue, I wouldn't leave for SWA or anyone else.

The question is real simple, do you want an airline lifestyle? Or do you like what you are doing? If you like what you are doing it's tuff to make it better but it's easy to make it worse.

Great post. It's true - no flying job is secure any more. Find one you enjoy that pays reasonably well and stick with it...

 

[Lear70]

On Your Six and G4G5 are right on the money. I had the opportunity to go to NJA when I came on with Pinnacle, and boy do I wish I had taken the NJA route. If I was where you were, there's no way you could pry me out of that seat unless FedEx called and even then it'd be a tough choice.

jetBlue is a great company with great people, but their growth IS a little scary although I'm not worried about a dual fleet - AirTran seems to be having no problems integrating a B717 and B737 fleet into their daily operations, I see no reason why Blue couldn't do the same thing.

Don't listen to Longhorn, he's drinking the kool aid. (Couldn't resist buddy, excuse me, Mr. 969 seniority number. ).

It may be about the schedule. 7/7 isn't for everyone, and 12 days off on the reserve schedule doesn't sound all that fun either. I like doing a 4 day trip, being off 3 or 4 days, then going back at it again and I commute; I have kids, I don't like being gone more than 3 or 4 days off in a row.

It may be about the pay. NJA tops out MUCH higher than jetBlue ($167k DA2000EX versus $137k jetBlue top CA) and I can't imagine that changing drastically without a union in place at jetBlue which I don't think is going to happen for a LONG time, if ever.

It may be about the flight attendants, or guaranteed schedule or any other number of things, the best thing you can do is post a list about what you like about both lifestyles, then see what jumps out at you.

Now that I'd have to move, NJA is no longer on my radar screen, I'm just not able to do that with family concerns, so I'd have to be able to commute. Everyone has different issues important to them, but if I was in your boat (pre T.A. language on domiciles), I wouldn't move.

What's important to you? What's your driving issue to leave Netjets for? Those are what we'd have to know in order to help you make a decision and since those are pretty private things many times, you're probably on your own.

p.s. What G4G5 said about type ratings and job stability and future job security bears re-reading, I can't stress that enough if you're going to stay on the corporate side of the world. Good luck!

 

[cgmason1]

Hydrarkt,
I think we briefly discussed this just after NJA got the new contract.
Without re-hashing everything-there are plusses and minuses to both.
Having worked at both companies-I would still have made the jump if I had to make the decision right now.
My bottom line is I enjoy the job allot more at JB than I did at NJA-in the long run I think I will be happier here.

I think you could also be very happy if you stayed at NJA-its a very personal decision.

If you have any other questions feel free to PM me.

Fly Safe
Chuck
ps there are a few other prior NJA pilots at JB-hopefully they will chime in or PM you.

 

[BusDriver2]

Nice position to be in. Depends on what you enjoy. Tough choice though. Having no crash pad and no commute is big. Flying to the same airports over and over (most with 8 K or more of runway and ILS appchs) gets old fast. Enjoy the Telurides and Aspens around the world! Adds variety and challenge to the mix. We have had a couple good guys leave here to go to NJ to fly ...yet we have them flocking here as well! To each there own. If you could get to the Gulfstream side then go for that. Sounds like the money keeps getting better there. Good luck.

 

[flyfish]

If you could get to the Gulfstream side then go for that. Sounds like the money keeps getting better there. Good luck.

Actuallly, our class 4 payscales are higher at NJA. And, in 2.5 years we all might be one happy family.

 

[Hawker dude]

I think you should go to Jet Blue, it will move me up another number.