Jetblue pilots begin organization drive...

[lowecur]

They basicly invited ALPA on the property yesterday. So get it over with already. If it wasn't this terrible injustice now, it would be the fact that the pilot lounge has gotten too shabby in the next year or the vending machines have gone up a quarter.

And lastly, I was a regional guy. I flew the 320 for 2 years and now the 190. I can tell you that it does not matter if you are regional, major, cargo, mil....everyone is pissed, especially the 190 guys.

Do you think mgt made a mistake by growing too fast? I think they are just beginning to see the effects of having too much on their plate in an industry that as been changing colors by the minute. Will the pilot group give them time to digest what's happening? No way, the ball has dropped at Times Square and Dick Clark is already talking to private equity.

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[J32driver]

They should stick to hiring regional guys instead of the more experienced legacy furloughees.

I told you this a couple years ago, I'm going to say it again. You have no concept of management/labor relations. Speaking about something you don't understand only reveals how little you really know.

When the Furloughees were hired, JetBlue said you are going to like it here so much you will never go back. I guess they were wrong.

If you think a regional guy is trapped at JetBlue and stands a more likely chance of staying, I guess you failed to notice alot of other places are hiring.

 

[radarlove]

Dick Clark is already talking to private equity.

Interesting if true. Source?

 

[Lear70]

Lowecur, you usually have pretty decent financial understandings of this industry, but lack industry experience to put events into perspective.

Blue had no choice but to expand quickly, otherwise they would have been stuck in the same boat that Midwest is in: great product, no national name brand recognition.

Now they have better brand recognition than airTran which has been around a lot longer, they have a great product, fuel prices have stabilized and will either stay the same or go down slightly (in case you haven't been watching oil lately which you probably have and already know). With increasing yields they are poised to make a good profit this year and an excellent profit next year.

So no, I don't blame the 'Blue pilots for wanting to enter the new year on decent financial ground.

It's WRONG that the 320 guys haven't received a COLA raise in years (longevity only).

It's WRONG that the E190 pay scale on the CA side tops out around the same range as a 717 F/O at AAI and airTran's pay scale is 6 years old. Almost identical seating,,,?

About the only people who benefit here are the 190 F/O's, and I do believe that it was done ONLY to try to stem the bleeding that's about to take place. Those F/O's mostly came from other regionals where they were CA's and Check Airmen, have LOTS of experience, and will be PERFECT candidates when DAL and NWA start hiring this year (If you'd go to NWA, but that's another subject), not to mention CAL, SWA, FDX, and UPS already hiring.

These smaller LCC's just don't get it about compensating their pilot groups fairly or they'll leave to someone who will. Do you have ANY idea how much money that is? Multiplied by HOW many pilots will leave? Mostly junior guys so it doesn't help reduce upper-level compensation.

Incidentally, I agree that ALPA or IBT would probably be the best way to go for you guys. No SCOPE issues and a large war chest. I wouldn't want ALPA here, but that's simply because we are already established in-house with financial reserves to back it.

You guys are in for a long road. Good luck to ya'!

 

[Andy]

Good luck JBLU pilots, no matter which course of action you choose.

 

[flying bubba]

Here's some outside the box thinking for you.....

What if Jb really wants 300-400 people to return to their former airlines?

They have slowed growth. The pilots that would be leaving are the vocal ones about a union. They are farther up the seniority list, so they make a higher wage. They brought in their experience, many of them airbus guys, and allowed the company to expand rapidly.

Now, the company doesnt quite need to expand so fast, so fo's with little or no airbus time will have longer times in the right seat to gain that. The guys that upgrade to replace the ones that left will be at a lower payscale and probably happy to upgrade now sooner than later.
Most of the union talk will leave with the same individuals that obviously didnt want to be there anyways.

The cost of training new fo's is less than what the pilots were hoping to receive so maybe that was a factor as well.

Just some thoughts.....

 

[TWA Dude]

To further pile onto Lowcur's lack of understanding of the industry:

There's a reason why every major airline (except JB) and just about every regional/small jet carrier has unionized pilot groups -- it's needed to defend against management abuse. And considering that the majority of pilots tend to be Republicans that says a lot.

 

[Skank]

I think what we need to organize first is our thoughts. Lets clear the spittle of our chins from all the ranting (and you were wondering why everyone within hearing distance was covering their face), and calm down a little. Nobody ever got anywhere by ranting, except on this message board....

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

If we had a union, we would be in talks for years to get what the E-190 guys got for a raise. Better yet, how many airlines are giving raises at this time-- ah lets count them, ZERO!!! A unionized airline would have furloughed about 100 pilots this past September/October with the reduction in flight hours. No union thus far has retained anything as far as pay, benefits, pensions, or work rules for many of your so called "Legacy" carriers-- thanks, I'd rather keep my 2-3 percent than give it to those weak "live to fight another day" folks who are supposedly defending our way of life, RIGHT!!! They've done nothing but collapse to company demands time and time again...

 

[On Your Six]

If we had a union, we would be in talks for years to get what the E-190 guys got for a raise. Better yet, how many airlines are giving raises at this time-- ah lets count them, ZERO!!! A unionized airline would have furloughed about 100 pilots this past September/October with the reduction in flight hours. No union thus far has retained anything as far as pay, benefits, pensions, or work rules for many of your so called "Legacy" carriers-- thanks, I'd rather keep my 2-3 percent than give it to those weak "live to fight another day" folks who are supposedly defending our way of life, RIGHT!!! They've done nothing but collapse to company demands time and time again...

Does JetBlue care about attracting "quality" pilots going forward? If so, actions need to speak louder than words... I know of two current JetBlue pilots who are seriously considering returning to Netjets - as FOs on Citations.

In the meantime, the "quality" pilots will be looking at SWA, UPS, Fedex and some of the legacies that have or will restart their hiring soon instead of JetBlue. Is that something JetBlue wants or will be proud of going forward? Doubt it. It's all about SIGNAL VALUE and messaging to the pilot community...

 

[GuppyPuppy]

If we had a union, we would be in talks for years to get what the E-190 guys got for a raise. Better yet, how many airlines are giving raises at this time-- ah lets count them, ZERO!!! A unionized airline would have furloughed about 100 pilots this past September/October with the reduction in flight hours. No union thus far has retained anything as far as pay, benefits, pensions, or work rules for many of your so called "Legacy" carriers-- thanks, I'd rather keep my 2-3 percent than give it to those weak "live to fight another day" folks who are supposedly defending our way of life, RIGHT!!! They've done nothing but collapse to company demands time and time again...

Let me guess...you're an A320 captain who is not on reserve.

GP

 

[murano]

If we had a union, we would be in talks for years to get what the E-190 guys got for a raise. Better yet, how many airlines are giving raises at this time-- ah lets count them, ZERO!!! A unionized airline would have furloughed about 100 pilots this past September/October with the reduction in flight hours. No union thus far has retained anything as far as pay, benefits, pensions, or work rules for many of your so called "Legacy" carriers-- thanks, I'd rather keep my 2-3 percent than give it to those weak "live to fight another day" folks who are supposedly defending our way of life, RIGHT!!! They've done nothing but collapse to company demands time and time again...

Keep sucking that kool-aid bud! Everything's going be just fine for ya

 

[Blue Dude]

If we had a union, we would be in talks for years to get what the E-190 guys got for a raise. Better yet, how many airlines are giving raises at this time-- ah lets count them, ZERO!!! A unionized airline would have furloughed about 100 pilots this past September/October with the reduction in flight hours. No union thus far has retained anything as far as pay, benefits, pensions, or work rules for many of your so called "Legacy" carriers-- thanks, I'd rather keep my 2-3 percent than give it to those weak "live to fight another day" folks who are supposedly defending our way of life, RIGHT!!! They've done nothing but collapse to company demands time and time again...

Speak for yourself. You sure don't speak for me, and I'm probably senior to you. All I know is that I've gotten a continuous 15% pay cut over the last five years, we're far past the startup stage, and we have no voice at all as to the content of our own contracts. We have just been kicked in the balls and you want to take a wait and see attitude? What would it take for you to take matters into your own hands? It's already been shown that management CANNOT be relied upon to "do the right thing" with regards to pilot pay. It would not have taken much, even a COLA increase would have been something. Instead we got zip and a shell game changing our benefits around. Wake up!

BTW, your rant vs. Legacy unions is apples and oranges. There was a great deal of fat in those contracts and the industry was in crisis. We on the other hand are the most productive and least paid pilots in the industry. These is no fat to trim and we're due for just a little consideration for the effort, not to mention some mechanism for at least some input to the process. Right now we have squat and it's been shown in convincing fashion that that's no longer an adequate situation.

 

[FlyingFarmer]

Yeah, what he said!!! Company biotch

 

[lowecur]

If we had a union, we would be in talks for years to get what the E-190 guys got for a raise. Better yet, how many airlines are giving raises at this time-- ah lets count them, ZERO!!! A unionized airline would have furloughed about 100 pilots this past September/October with the reduction in flight hours. No union thus far has retained anything as far as pay, benefits, pensions, or work rules for many of your so called "Legacy" carriers-- thanks, I'd rather keep my 2-3 percent than give it to those weak "live to fight another day" folks who are supposedly defending our way of life, RIGHT!!! They've done nothing but collapse to company demands time and time again...

There will probably be a vote to bring ALPA in, but I doubt anyone really believes they will do anything but fracture whatever relationship is left, and give you 2 cents on your dollar investment. My guess is mgt will have a road show to try and head off the inevitable, but I think an in house will eventually emerge. Some questions to ponder:

• Has Jetblue Mgt done a good job the last few years? No, they have anticipated poorly, and failed to recognize problems before they emerged. Neeleman believed they were immune to high fuel prices. He got bad advice.
• Are they on the right track now? They seem to be, but we won't really know until about the middle of 2007.
• Have they put their own compensation ahead of other employee groups? No.
• If the pilot group deserves a raise, what percentage are we talking about and what will it cost the company of the projected $150M profit next year?
• Is a private equity takeover a good thing? Yes, I think it is. It allows mgt to spend their time managing instead of doing whatever it takes to get the stock price moving. It's been suggested that mgt spends 60% of their time coddling the investors with public promotion and doing all the paperwork involved to keep the SEC happy. As a caveat, I have no knowledge of any possible buyout...it's all speculation on my part.

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