Jetblue Pic time ?

[buttercup]

Does anyone know if PIC time accrued as an instructor in little Cessna and Piper tin cans can be counted towards JB 1000 requirement. It says that JB considers PIC time as signing for the aircraft, so this area is a little grey.. Thanks!!

 

[SDCFI]

Follow-up

Along the same lines, how about dual received after the pvt cert (inst, comm, multi, etc.)? You and the instructor are logging PIC. Since under 91 no one "signs" for the aircraft how do they handle that? Or multi time building where one person wears the hood so you can both log PIC.

 

[airbaker]

Or multi time building where one person wears the hood so you can both log PIC.

This is probably going to sound a little arrogant, and I really don't mean for anyone to take offense.... but if you're piecing together this kind of flight time, you are no where near the ballpark to get pulled from the computer. I'd venture to say that many folks who have been called, have understated their flight times on the computer, and probably didn't claim any flight time that was questionable.

Again, not trying to flame, just giving my humble 2 cents.

 

[CODs4ever]

PIC time means that you were the one directly responsible for the safety of the flight. Thus, if you were an instructor in a C-152 or whatever, that's PIC time. However, logging PIC time when you are a private pilot and your CFII or MEI is giving you instruction, really is not PIC. You may have been the "pilot at the controls" (Part 91) but you were not directly responsible for the conduct & safety of the flight, and that will be a tough one to explain at an interview, let alone anywhere else.

Besides all that, as airbaker stated, if you are using C-152 instructor time to put you over the 1000 hour PIC minimum, it counts, but it may not be very competitive. However, anything is worth a shot. The worst that can happen is that you don't get called for an interview.

 

[GogglesPisano]

What are competetive times right now?

 

[CODs4ever]

I only know three guys hired by JB. All three were Navy with between 2500-3000 total, mostly P-3C and C-12 (King Air 200) time, but each had well over 1500 PIC multi-engine turbine and a fair amount of heavy (P-3C 100,000+ lbs) flight time. I think JB likes any flight time in aircraft heavier than 20,000 lbs.

 

[Whitestoneclimb]

I was told by a buddy of mine who works there that I have essentially "zero chance" of getting called since I have no 'jet' time and no 'glass cockpit' experience. I have 7000 hours in a Dash 8 with half of it PIC. I thought that would count for something. Go figure. They always seem to want something more. First they want turbine time. Then they want turbine PIC. Then they want turbine PIC in a heavier airplane. Then they want turbine PIC time in a jet. Then they want jet PIC time in glass cockpit aircraft. Everyone says its easier to fly a jet and easier to fly with glass as compared to steam guages. Whats up with that........Sorry, I guess I'm ranting. I'll stop now.

 

[B190Captain]

I was told by a buddy of mine who works there that I have essentially "zero chance" of getting called since I have no 'jet' time and no 'glass cockpit' experience. I have 7000 hours in a Dash 8 with half of it PIC. I thought that would count for something. Go figure. They always seem to want something more. First they want turbine time. Then they want turbine PIC. Then they want turbine PIC in a heavier airplane. Then they want turbine PIC time in a jet. Then they want jet PIC time in glass cockpit aircraft. Everyone says its easier to fly a jet and easier to fly with glass as compared to steam guages. Whats up with that........Sorry, I guess I'm ranting. I'll stop now.

I agree but what can you do? You need experience in monitoring an aircraft that flies by itself.

 

[jetblue320]

I was told by a buddy of mine who works there that I have essentially "zero chance" of getting called since I have no 'jet' time and no 'glass cockpit' experience. I have 7000 hours in a Dash 8 with half of it PIC. I thought that would count for something. Go figure. They always seem to want something more. First they want turbine time. Then they want turbine PIC. Then they want turbine PIC in a heavier airplane. Then they want turbine PIC time in a jet. Then they want jet PIC time in glass cockpit aircraft. Everyone says its easier to fly a jet and easier to fly with glass as compared to steam guages. Whats up with that........Sorry, I guess I'm ranting. I'll stop now.

To set the record straight, we have only changed our requirements (minimums) one time and to some, the minimums were actually relaxed. I know this may seem a harsh statement but it is all about supply and demand. Three years ago, 7000 hours in a Dash 8 would have been enough. Today, 7000 hours of B757 (or similar) PIC is about standard. It's all in the timng.

Good luck

 

[jetblue320]

I agree but what can you do? You need experience in monitoring an aircraft that flies by itself.

One of the first experience qualities would be maturity.

 

[Falconjet]

320

You forgot arrogant and condescending!

 

[B190Captain]

Oh please. You tellin me that an airbus is not fully automated? Airbus designers have a goal in mind. To remove the pilot out of the equation.

On another note JB's 20K requirement is ridiculous. I have more than one friend that the largest plane they flew before they got into a 747, DC-10, 757/767 and so on was a 1900 (pre and post 9/11).

"You forgot arrogant and condescending!"

Those are the other 2 experience qualities?

No need for name calling kiddies.

 

[Whitestoneclimb]

Originally posted by Whitestoneclimb
I was told by a buddy of mine who works there that I have essentially "zero chance" of getting called since I have no 'jet' time and no 'glass cockpit' experience. I have 7000 hours in a Dash 8 with half of it PIC. I thought that would count for something. Go figure. They always seem to want something more. First they want turbine time. Then they want turbine PIC. Then they want turbine PIC in a heavier airplane. Then they want turbine PIC time in a jet. Then they want jet PIC time in glass cockpit aircraft. Everyone says its easier to fly a jet and easier to fly with glass as compared to steam guages. Whats up with that........Sorry, I guess I'm ranting. I'll stop now.
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To set the record straight, we have only changed our requirements (minimums) one time and to some, the minimums were actually relaxed. I know this may seem a harsh statement but it is all about supply and demand. Three years ago, 7000 hours in a Dash 8 would have been enough. Today, 7000 hours of B757 (or similar) PIC is about standard. It's all in the timng.

Good luck



I wasn't trying to sound condecending nor was I blowing my horn. It was just a general statement regarding hiring practices, not necessarily those at JetBlue. And yes, you are right. Its all in the timing.

 

[Falconjet]

B190/Whitestone

My comments were directed at the response that Whitestone got from JetBlue320, not to Whitestone. I should have stayed out of it but sometimes I get tired of the JB folks defending their standing in the industry when nobody has questioned it. My bad.

FJ

 

[CODs4ever]

All three guys I know that got hired had zero jet time, and zero glass cockpit time. But they were Navy. Dave Barger's (President, Chief Operating Officer and Director) brother is a former Navy F/A-18 pilot and I think he heads up the training department (not sure though).

So it seems like there is some amount of preference given to military guys, even if they have no jet or glass time. But at the same time, I know of several military pilots who I would have thought would be ideal candidates, but they did not get called.

 

[GogglesPisano]

All three guys I know that got hired had zero jet time, and zero glass cockpit time. But they were Navy. Dave Barger's (President, Chief Operating Officer and Director) brother is a former Navy F/A-18 pilot and I think he heads up the training department (not sure though).

So it seems like there is some amount of preference given to military guys, even if they have no jet or glass time. But at the same time, I know of several military pilots who I would have thought would be ideal candidates, but they did not get called.

In other words, now they're becoming like every other major airline.

 

[CODs4ever]

Yes, but I think that JB still tries to keep an even spread for hiring among military, part-121, and corporate pilots. Where as other airlines in the past have leaned very far towards hiring miltary above any others. It just works out that your typical mil pilot making his/her transition to the civilian world in their mid-30's will most likely only have between 2500-3500 hours.

 

[B6Busdriver]

I agree but what can you do? You need experience in monitoring an aircraft that flies by itself.

It's funny how people that have never flown an A320 make these statements all the time. I went from a captain on a relatively fast turboprop to right seat on the 737. Training was no big deal but the 73 ate my lunch a few times the first 6 months I flew it because of the speed, descent planning, and overall complexity. It's a big step from a 1900 to an A320 or 737. It's not to say you wouldn't do just fine in training or flying the airplane but don't underestimate the transition. When an airline has the opportunity to hire a guy or gal with experience in faster more complex airplanes they are going to do it especially when upgrade time is less than two years. It's frustrating as hell when you know you can do a job if you are given the opportunity, I've been there! Hang in there and I hope you find something soon.

 

[B6Busdriver]

To set the record straight, we have only changed our requirements (minimums) one time and to some, the minimums were actually relaxed. I know this may seem a harsh statement but it is all about supply and demand. Three years ago, 7000 hours in a Dash 8 would have been enough. Today, 7000 hours of B757 (or similar) PIC is about standard. It's all in the timng.

Good luck

Saying that 7000 hours of PIC in a 757 or equivalent is a bit of an overstatement IMHO.

 

[B190Captain]

Re: B190/Whitestone

My comments were directed at the response that Whitestone got from JetBlue320, not to Whitestone. I should have stayed out of it but sometimes I get tired of the JB folks defending their standing in the industry when nobody has questioned it. My bad.

FJ

Oh I get it now. LOL!! Sry for the misunderstanding.