Jetblue pay raise

[B6Busdriver]

For me ALPA's actions have always spoken louder then their name calling and intimidation tactics.

Let me guess, you are part of the RJDC...right?

 

[Lake Alice]

For me ALPA's actions have always spoken louder then their name calling and intimidation tactics.

Let me guess. You had a job at a regional carrier and your contract did not provide you with mainline pay and benefits therefore ALPA failed you. You expected your regional carrier to be a carrier job, right? Meanwhile you were provided with benefits, retirement, safety, legal, and a job working for a small lift provider that was designed to be a stepping stone to a major carrier.

 

[Blue Dude]

But normally it is the senior people that support ALPA because they control the union and think that they benefit at the junior members expense, even thou it usually is just shooting themselves in the foot.

Actually the plan was to have a seniority silo representative model instead of the traditional base/seat model. This nicely avoids the trap you describe. That idea got carried over to the current in-house non-union committee and I see no reason it would change under ALPA.

 

[aircombat]

Let me guess. You had a job at a regional carrier and your contract did not provide you with mainline pay and benefits therefore ALPA failed you. You expected your regional carrier to be a carrier job, right? Meanwhile you were provided with benefits, retirement, safety, legal, and a job working for a small lift provider that was designed to be a stepping stone to a major carrier.

You are much closer than CaptnV or B6B if it makes you feel better about yourself. I didn't have any expectations and don't know who designed regionals to be stepping stones because I thought they were designed to be wage control for Major airlines. You guys are the ones with the unrealistic expectations of ALPA. I don't know how much I can take hearing you guys say "We need ALPA so we don't become like X airline" when X airline is, or was, an ALPA carrier.

 

[Lake Alice]

If you could be specific what did ALPA do to you?

 

[aircombat]

If you could be specific what did ALPA do to you?

It’s more of what they don’t do then what they do. There are very few people that think this profession is heading in the right direction. The proof is in the lack of faith shown by how few people are getting trained to become pilots. ALPA is in a position to turn things around however they are too political to care about the future. It’s easier for them to keep the status quo, keeping their union pay then to rock the boat and possibly lose everything. If you ask them why they can’t get anything done they will always cite the RLA or say it’s not a mandatory negotiating item. I just want to be like the club owner in kill bill when Budd tells him why he isn’t doing his job http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaf11UNSvcQ&feature=related .

ALPA has done almost nothing to prevent scope relaxation, supported increasing the retirement age at worst possible time (while thousands were on furlough), and supports pitting pilots against each other. For me personally, they don’t answer the phone, don’t return phone calls, don’t show their presence in the crew lounge, and don’t educate the pilot group in any way. Instead they, push their views with no supporting data, too often sound like an echo from management, allow clear violations of the CBA to occur with days of advanced notice, and overall provide a false sense of security.

 

[Blue Dude]

And yet... the DR has even less to offer.

 

[aircombat]

And yet... the DR has even less to offer.

maybe, but are you certain that you will get more than 2% because you will need that just to break even. I'm by no means an expert on the JB agreement however if you are getting the industry standard that's all that ALPA will ever strive for.
I'm not a union hater. I would support them fully if they worked and most importantly upheld the "collective interests of all pilots in commercial aviation", as their mission statement says.

 

[Blue Dude]

maybe, but are you certain that you will get more than 2% because you will need that just to break even. I'm by no means an expert on the JB agreement however if you are getting the industry standard that's all that ALPA will ever strive for.

I'm not going into details, but suffice it to say that across the board industry average would be a vast improvement. And merely average in areas we lack need a CBA to implement. So yeah, 2% is a bargain.

 

[banger]

if you are getting the industry standard that's all that ALPA will ever strive for.
.

Depends on the defintion of standard. We don't automitically get and need to fight for the combined average of airlines who someone else says is our peer from 2 years ago. Right out of the blocks that "average" is outdated. Then that standard applies only to pay rate. Retirement, healthcare and work rules are father behind. Everything is in vague writing up for interpretation and the company is the judge and final say.

 

[Lake Alice]

It’s more of what they don’t do then what they do. There are very few people that think this profession is heading in the right direction. The proof is in the lack of faith shown by how few people are getting trained to become pilots. ALPA is in a position to turn things around however they are too political to care about the future. It’s easier for them to keep the status quo, keeping their union pay then to rock the boat and possibly lose everything. If you ask them why they can’t get anything done they will always cite the RLA or say it’s not a mandatory negotiating item. I just want to be like the club owner in kill bill when Budd tells him why he isn’t doing his job http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaf11UNSvcQ&feature=related .

ALPA has done almost nothing to prevent scope relaxation, supported increasing the retirement age at worst possible time (while thousands were on furlough), and supports pitting pilots against each other. For me personally, they don’t answer the phone, don’t return phone calls, don’t show their presence in the crew lounge, and don’t educate the pilot group in any way. Instead they, push their views with no supporting data, too often sound like an echo from management, allow clear violations of the CBA to occur with days of advanced notice, and overall provide a false sense of security.

Again what did ALPA do to you?

Scope relaxation is voted on by the pilot group or by those you elected. ALPA does not make the decision. A violation of a CBA is then fought but either a judge or an arbitrator makes the final decision, not ALPA. In the union environment the courts have established a procedure for grievances, not ALPA. Their is not a court in this land that will support your walking of the job for a non-safety related grievance. Again, not ALPA.
A union cannot prevent a company from violating a contract. A union provides a method to fight the grievance. There is no false sense of security. If a court decides an airline can dump your retirement that is not ALPA's fault. They can fight it but they can't prevent much of what a bankruptcy judge decides.

I'm not ALPA but the reason I make the argument is largely due to false expectations of pilots. As I mentioned before ALPA provides resources. Engineering and safety in the even of an accident/incident. Aeromedical. Training. Lastly all this comes in the form of a CBA that is voted on.
Most regional pilot claim ALPA failed to represent them. I always ask how and that is when the truth comes out. Regional airlines are small life providers contracted out as the LOWEST bidder. If you get to expensive your contract is not renewed. What ALPA is guilty of is mismanaging your expectations.

 

[linepilot]

Why do bluebells feel the need to advertise to real airline pilots that they managed to get a few crumbs for their industry leading productivity?

2% is what you get for voting two unions down?

That doesn't even cover COLA.

 

[banger]

Why do bluebells feel the need to advertise to real airline pilots that they managed to get a few crumbs for their industry leading productivity?

2% is what you get for voting two unions down?

That doesn't even cover COLA.

I don't think anybody is advertising it in a "good sense" I think most are in agreement with you that it s*cks and not what it should be.

 

[Fins Up]

It's better than the union alternative. That would look like this

2.2
-3.5
-2.0 (union dues)
-------
-3.3%

Like previously pointed out you are making the average that your union brethren are without paying the 2% to the MECs waistline.

Our pay rates ride the coat tails of union pilot groups who fought for those rates. Our other benefits don't even do that.

 

[linepilot]

Our pay rates ride the coat tails of union pilot groups who fought for those rates. Our other benefits don't even do that.

There are 1000 pilots at jetblew who are MORE than happy to ride coat-tails and even take the coat off someone's back if need be.

 

[jynxyjericho]

There are 1000 pilots at jetblew who are MORE than happy to ride coat-tails and even take the coat off someone's back if need be.

Yeah, but over time that changes. Pilots learn slowly, painfully painfully slowly, over time that knowledge and experience may change things for the better... and with age 70 coming up next that could be all the help we need!

(just a little sarcasm folks)

 

[shon7]

Why do bluebells feel the need to advertise to real airline pilots that they managed to get a few crumbs for their industry leading productivity?

2% is what you get for voting two unions down?

That doesn't even cover COLA.

you're right. Chap 11 covers COLA much better.

 

[pilotyip]

you're right. Chap 11 covers COLA much better.

correct, unemployment is indexed for COLA

 

[Smarta$$]

you're right. Chap 11 covers COLA much better.

Another BlueTampon. What does your post even mean?

 

[linepilot]

Another BlueTampon. What does your post even mean?

He means that pilots cause airlines to fail which is why he is an executive's wet dream.