jetblue or continental ??

[curious_george]

hey guys n gals...

looking for input and advice on your choice of companies given all that is going on in our industry. i know its smart to take whichever offer comes first. -what i want to know is, if both offers came at exact time. which would u take and why.

-im single and would have no problem living in any base for either company so commuting is not a factor.

-i know people who were furloughed from cal, hired at jetblue and have now bypassed the recall.
-there may be people who have left jetblue for cal now that they are hiring as well.

cal pros: hiring alot, lots of retirements coming, legacy, seem to be making a lil money even in todays econ, ability to fly large equip overseas.
cal cons: could end up like other legacys, mass cuts/furlough.

blue pros: hiring alot, growing a ton, business model works, not hats =)
blue cons: 190 pay is quite low, no overseas/larger than 320, much smaller route structure (non rev) ex i just took a friend on buddy pass n went to AMS last weekend.

so what are your thoughts out there... what are the factors in your decision. thanks.

 

[Pedro]

Hey George, I'd goto CAL just because Blue has a 5 year contract, no job protection.

Also the route structure as you mentioned.CAL business plan seemstobe working pretty good, JetBlue's hasn't proven itself yet (Everybody in the pilot group is fairly junior, so when people start making more money, they will either stop making money or will have to start letting people at the topofthe list go). Also, I don't know if they are paying for the planes yet, but if they aren't, that's gonna have a big impact.

Just my opinion, i'm no expert, but CAL looks like a lot better place to retire.

 

[tailhookah]

Pedro's correct.....

He's no expert.... talking out of his a$$.....

The 5 year contract is a non issue: auto renewing and we have guys on their 2nd 5 year contracts.... we also pay for our planes right now. There's always one idiot per week who blindly follows the rumor mill about that crap. If you think you have any job protection under any carrier over another just think about jetblue's history of furloughs....Zero. Continental's..... many times.

Both companies are good choices. I would worry about CAL's large expansionism policy right now. It seems they are trying to grow back into profitability... a great plan if successful but a really bad one if not. If it's not sucessfull then you could expect many furloughs at short notice that go pretty deep. When you are expanding like they are in this environment when you haven't been profitable for years it can catch up to you really fast. B6 has a solid plan for many years and has been profitable during hard times. B6 is also expanding very fast but the trump card here is the E190 which will open up a whole new revenue flow for the company and will have some time to exploit the 190 before much competition comes out against it. Upgrade could be much faster at B6. In the end if both companies make it and are larger and sucessful 20 years from now I think it will be a wash or even maybe be a little better to have gone w/ B6.

I'll say it's a hard choice. CAL gives you more options right now but B6 will give you more over the long run if the business plan stays on track. Then again if you go to CAL you could be furloughed by xmas or then again maybe not. The only thing I can say for a fact is that don't listen to Pedro... he's talking out of his A$$....

 

[BlueMule]

George,

I have to say that I am biased, as I work at JB. I will say that it is a great place to work, the money is ok if you work more than guarantee. Anything over 70 is time and a half. Some months I work a lot to maximize extra pay, other months I PTO and fly about 10 days.

The previous reply was off base. No one is let go after 5 years. How many people would put up with that even being an option. Jetblue has paid for its' airplanes from day one. Look back at the 10Q filings since the company went public over 3 years ago. It is very easy to find in those reports.

Do your research, and base your decision on talking to people who work for the company. I have friends who work for Continental, and like it. Don't listen to the idiots on this board who spread rumors. Look up the info yourself.

Good Luck!

 

[Blue Dude]

Hey George, I'd goto CAL just because Blue has a 5 year contract, no job protection.

Also the route structure as you mentioned.CAL business plan seemstobe working pretty good, JetBlue's hasn't proven itself yet (Everybody in the pilot group is fairly junior, so when people start making more money, they will either stop making money or will have to start letting people at the topofthe list go). Also, I don't know if they are paying for the planes yet, but if they aren't, that's gonna have a big impact.

Just my opinion, i'm no expert, but CAL looks like a lot better place to retire.

A new record! More misconceptions per square inch ever on this board. I am quite amazed.

 

[Pedro]

Wow!!! Did I touch the wrong spot or what?

Like I said, it was just MY opinion,and I'm NOT an expert . JB is doing great now, but it has yet to prove itself. CAL doesn't have a big expansion policy, they are growing but not as much as you think, half their list will retire within the next 5 years.

JetBlue hasn't had any furloughs, btu how long have you guys been around?

My apologies to you guys if I offended youin any way, just giving my opinion. You guys are a great group and I wish the best for you.

 

[FlyBoeingJets]

The big retirements may seem good at CAL, but there may be hidden dangers to a new guy's career. I am not smart on their retirement plan, are they getting an A plan benefit? If so, you need to calculate the drain on the company and, in effect, the younger pilots. Can CAL handle it? They can't handle it at DAL. AA is worried they won't be able to handle it. The older pilots are not bad guys but they will shape your future in many ways. Having a younger (junior) pilot group at JetBlue eliminates that variable.

JetBlue's fleet growth is better than big retirements at CAL, IMHO. But growth has inherent uncertainty and debt is building much quicker at JetBlue.

Can future revenue overcome the debt burden at either airline? Are costs likely to increase and turn profits into losses?

CAL has a very good international route structure and is getting new airplanes. They have already eliminated fleet types they don't want. They are years ahead of NWA and DAL on fleet management.

Tough call. If location is not a factor, I would look at each like an investor. Which one would you rather put your money into?

 

[TonyC]

A new record! More misconceptions per square inch ever on this board. I am quite amazed.

Six replies and no mention of free gloves. I am quite amazed.







.

 

[Pedro]

Six replies and no mention of free gloves. I am quite amazed.







.

They are no longer free...

 

[FreightNazi]

Six replies and no mention of free gloves. I am quite amazed.







.

Good one Tony. That's the equivalent of us unloading cans or working the K loader when we arrive at the destination.

 

[IB6 UB9]

Hey George, I'd goto CAL just because Blue has a 5 year contract, no job protection.

Also the route structure as you mentioned.CAL business plan seemstobe working pretty good, JetBlue's hasn't proven itself yet (Everybody in the pilot group is fairly junior, so when people start making more money, they will either stop making money or will have to start letting people at the topofthe list go). Also, I don't know if they are paying for the planes yet, but if they aren't, that's gonna have a big impact.

Just my opinion, i'm no expert, but CAL looks like a lot better place to retire.

(Yawn...) Care to guess how much research went into that response?

 

[IB6 UB9]

Six replies and no mention of free gloves. I am quite amazed.







.

...or how much intelligence went into that one?

 

[TonyC]

...or how much intelligence went into that one?

Aw, cummon, you knew it would come up. I just delivered it with a smile.







.

 

[IB6 UB9]

Aw, cummon, you knew it would come up. I just delivered it with a smile.







.

I'm laying on my side right now...and...if..I...just...pull these...down a little...there...now part of me is smiling right back at you.

 

[MINIME]

I'm no expert cause I'm still a Regional guy HOPING to make that next move. However, judging from the events taking place in our industry as of late, it is my opinion that one would be better off at the LCCs. I don't care what Legacy you chose, it's only a matter of time before their compensation is at or below that of most low cost carriers. Even now, SWA argueably has the highest paid pilot group in the industry. I believe the other low cost carriers will be working towards getting to that level while the Legacies will be doing just the opposite. Sad.... but I believe almost unavoidable at this point.

 

[TonyC]

I'm laying on my side right now...and...if..I...just...pull these...down a little...there...now part of me is smiling right back at you.

I should have known you can be counted on to take it down a level or two.


Judging from how easy it was for you to do that, you must be experienced in dropping your... standards.









.

 

[RichardFitzwell]

Well, there you have it. Three out of three jetBlue pilots pick jetBlue.

That solves that.

 

[IB6 UB9]

I should have known you can be counted on to take it down a level or two.


Judging from how easy it was for you to do that, you must be experienced in dropping your... standards.




.

Awww...I was jus funnin ya Tony, you know, for all the shat you give our guys, even the guys who used to have a great big job just like you, but for now all we have is this job. You weren't getting defensive there were you?

 

[AA717driver]

Never go anywhere "counting" on growth to advance your career. JB will try to triple its size in an overcrowded market (as it looks like no one is going to disappear) with high fuel prices, decreasing costs at the competition and low yields.

OTOH, no legacy is safe from shrinkage.

Plan on going to JB and sitting in the right seat for 5 to 7 years. If things stay on track and you upgrade in 3 years or so, great. If not, you will have planned ahead.TC

 

[Patriot328]

Never go anywhere "counting" on growth to advance your career. JB will try to triple its size in an overcrowded market (as it looks like no one is going to disappear) with high fuel prices, decreasing costs at the competition and low yields.

OTOH, no legacy is safe from shrinkage.

Plan on going to JB and sitting in the right seat for 5 to 7 years. If things stay on track and you upgrade in 3 years or so, great. If not, you will have planned ahead.TC

Listen to this man.....