Jetblue: Lateral Move For Regional Captains

[Caveman]

I'm a former CMR RJ Captain and now I'm a JetBlue Airbus FO. Not even close. JetBlue is a way better gig. Apples to oranges.

 

[Frank Lorenzo]

I'm a former CMR RJ Captain and now I'm a JetBlue Airbus FO. Not even close. JetBlue is a way better gig. Apples to oranges.

So what didn't you like about Mesa?

Congratulations on getting on at JBLU. In 5 years, when you are still an EMB-180 FO, you will be raking in $58 bucks an hour.

If you need an investment banker to help you stash away your fortune, I will be happy to recommend one.

 

[linepilot]

Maybe "lateral" was a bit of an exaggeration but "stepping stone" is a true statement for many FO's who've been there and for many who will follow.
They're losing over 100 pilots a year to other airlines.
My guess is Jetblue will only be a stopping point for a large percentage of new-hires.
It's only a career airline for the top 400 and if they get bought, those guys will be career FO's like the rest of the airline.
Guy's can't even give blue darts away anymore and I've heard that military pilots aren't even applying anymore.
Don't take my word for it. If you don't believe me, go spend a few years there and you'll see.
They're hiring straight from the open houses so it shouldn't be too hard to go see for yourselves.
Why am I being such a "hater" and pointing this out?
Well, if this is a web-site who's original purpose was to help pilots find airline careers then I guess this might just be considered friendly advice for those with their sights set a little higher. I'm telling my friends this, so why shouldn't I post it here?
In my case, the Jetblue I was told about in indoc was a completely different place in reality and I would not have spent the two years that I did there if I had known that. I did not have a good Jetblue experience.
But I guess we're supposed to keep these things to ourselves so we don't hurt any fragile egos.

 

[airborn]

Thanks for your view about JB. To provide further insight to those friends, where was your next step?

 

[Truckdriver]

In my case, the Jetblue I was told about in indoc was a completely different place in reality and I would not have spent the two years that I did there if I had known that.

Even though I liked the time I spent at JetBlue, I'll agree with the above statement. The cool-aid that flows at the open houses and at JetBlue U is good stuff. If you do go to JetBlue, just realize that once you are out of the schoolhouse you still work for an airline that has schedulers, has IROP's, has issues like every other airline, and also has employees that can be less than pleasant some days. It's still just an airline in the end, but probably better than most regional gigs if you can deal with the JFK commute.

 

[johnsonrod]

Even though I liked the time I spent at JetBlue, I'll agree with the above statement. The cool-aid that flows at the open houses and at JetBlue U is good stuff. If you do go to JetBlue, just realize that once you are out of the schoolhouse you still work for an airline that has schedulers, has IROP's, has issues like every other airline, and also has employees that can be less than pleasant some days. It's still just an airline in the end, but probably better than most regional gigs if you can deal with the JFK commute.

Plus, you have to deal with flying in and out of JFK all the time if you are based there. That would drive me crazy...... I have a former regional buddy who flies the E190 at JB - he says the routes remind him of his regional days (especially the IAD-JFK-BOS shuttle over and over again). The Airbus offers better variety. Hey, no airline is perfect, but people should be aware of what they are getting into before interviewing.

I don't think SWA is much better in terms of routes/schedule - sure, you make great money and you have some transcon flights now and then to break up the monotony, but you are primarily flying shorter hops multiple times per day (a la regional flying). I do that every day for my regional - no way I want to continue doing that for the rest of my career.....

 

[Yuppyguppy]

JetBlue EMB190 wages are regional wages. Ofcourse the whole friggin industry is descending into one big regional abyss.

Thanks to our friends of course at JBLU and AAI...now don't come back and tell me the legacies are lower pay you forget before 9/11 we were much higher...it always goes to the lowest common denominator. Keep draggin us down and now the advent Skybus and Virgin America...what a shame

 

[sligo1]

SWA-you work hard. Paid very well. Ave 16-18 days off. Sounds like a winning combination to me. I don't care if you fly regional routes or transcon. It is quite simply a great place to work.

 

[Spectre]

I see it takes posting the first year pay of bankrupt airlines to make JBLU look palatable.

Anyone want to compare the pay, benefits, and retirement of solvent airlines like SWA, AA, UPS etc. to JBLU? How about advancement opportunities?

OK, then let's do away with the 1st year pay:

My 6th year JetBlue pay as Capt A320 $127/hour up to 70 hours and $190/hour after 70 hours. I AVERAGE $15K/month. How many legacies pay that in your 6th year?

Even with slowing deliveries, JetBlue is a growing airline and the opportunities to upgrade are much quicker than at most legacies. Most legacies are in negative growth mode. For example, NWA is parking aircraft and not replacing the DC-9 with mainline aircraft but rather Compass, Pinnicle, and Mesaba leased aircraft instead.

 

[FlyinGuy]

Fact check...Lear 70 SWA upgrades are not approaching the 10 year mark. Maybe 7 yrs...Back to the JB topic!!!!

 

[Truckdriver]

OK, then let's do away with the 1st year pay:

My 6th year JetBlue pay as Capt A320 $127/hour up to 70 hours and $190/hour after 70 hours. I AVERAGE $15K/month. How many legacies pay that in your 6th year?

Even with slowing deliveries, JetBlue is a growing airline and the opportunities to upgrade are much quicker than at most legacies. Most legacies are in negative growth mode. For example, NWA is parking aircraft and not replacing the DC-9 with mainline aircraft but rather Compass, Pinnicle, and Mesaba leased aircraft instead.

There is no question that current 320 CA's have it made at JetBlue. The problem is the time current FO's will be FO's or be very junior CA's not being able to take advantage of premium pay. An FO hired today at JetBlue probably won't see a 320 CA slot for at least 6 years and then sit reserve for another 4. Just announced 3 more 320 sales so that is probably about right. CAL and DAL are both growing legacies. Upgrades at CAL are about 2-3 years in EWR. Upgrades at DAL will probably be around 3-4 in NYC. The FO pay at both of those carriers is better after year 1 pay and the long term career compensation with wide-body pay is much better than you can make at JetBlue. It's no longer 2002 and people now have options. If your in the top 500 at JetBlue, you have one of the best domestic jobs out there. If your not, other options are beginning to look a little better.

 

[furloughed dude]

Didn't work at the regionals but did work at Jetblue. Probably not too much different from my viewpoint. There are definitely much better places to be....

 

[737 Pylt]

OK, then let's do away with the 1st year pay:

My 6th year JetBlue pay as Capt A320 $127/hour up to 70 hours and $190/hour after 70 hours. I AVERAGE $15K/month. How many legacies pay that in your 6th year?

Even with slowing deliveries, JetBlue is a growing airline and the opportunities to upgrade are much quicker than at most legacies. Most legacies are in negative growth mode. For example, NWA is parking aircraft and not replacing the DC-9 with mainline aircraft but rather Compass, Pinnicle, and Mesaba leased aircraft instead.

Spetre:
I'm guessing that the folks hiring on now will easily see 6th yr cpt. at DAL. 6th yr captain pay on the M88 is $131/hr. We aren't hiring for attirition, but for growth. New a/c coming for the forseeable future. Also, was told by the CP's office they are upping the hiring to 75/month.
It will most likely be like it was back 10 yrs ago where 2 yr captains at DAL were part of the norm.
JB is slowing its growth plan.
How long for a current new hire (hired today) to be upgraded to 320 Capt?
I'm just curious..........

737

 

[oldxfr8dog]

OK, then let's do away with the 1st year pay:

My 6th year JetBlue pay as Capt A320 $127/hour up to 70 hours and $190/hour after 70 hours. I AVERAGE $15K/month. How many legacies pay that in your 6th year?

Even with slowing deliveries, JetBlue is a growing airline and the opportunities to upgrade are much quicker than at most legacies. Most legacies are in negative growth mode. For example, NWA is parking aircraft and not replacing the DC-9 with mainline aircraft but rather Compass, Pinnicle, and Mesaba leased aircraft instead.

My math shows you average over 102 credit hours a month. Are you including your per diem?

 

[Ski-N-Fly]

I find it funny how people make fun of a company that is only 7 years young, competing with the other carriers (legacy, national, or whatever else you may call them), and expect JB to have industry leading pay and benefits at this point in their history. Time has shown that the pay has increased (on more than one occasion), and that people seem to like the culture at JB. It's not for everyone, but then again, what place is? And because they don't have a union, they tend to get berated by people on these boards. Show me the perfect airline, please. What's really sad is that we have pilots bashing pilots........no one is crossing any picket lines, and everyone is doing the same job, trying to help their company survive. Lighten up, people! You have way too much time on your hands.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Spetre:
I'm guessing that the folks hiring on now will easily see 6th yr cpt. at DAL. 6th yr captain pay on the M88 is $131/hr. We aren't hiring for attirition, but for growth. New a/c coming for the forseeable future. Also, was told by the CP's office they are upping the hiring to 75/month.
It will most likely be like it was back 10 yrs ago where 2 yr captains at DAL were part of the norm.
JB is slowing its growth plan.
How long for a current new hire (hired today) to be upgraded to 320 Capt?
I'm just curious..........

737

Long, long time.

 

[PHXFLYR]

I find it funny how people make fun of a company that is only 7 years young, competing with the other carriers (legacy, national, or whatever else you may call them), and expect JB to have industry leading pay and benefits at this point in their history. Time has shown that the pay has increased (on more than one occasion), and that people seem to like the culture at JB. It's not for everyone, but then again, what place is? And because they don't have a union, they tend to get berated by people on these boards. Show me the perfect airline, please. What's really sad is that we have pilots bashing pilots........no one is crossing any picket lines, and everyone is doing the same job, trying to help their company survive. Lighten up, people! You have way too much time on your hands.

"Industry leading pay and benefits". Man,am I getting sick of that term. Anyone care to define what exactly that is nowadays?

PHXFLYR

 

[Lear70]

Fact check...Lear 70 SWA upgrades are not approaching the 10 year mark. Maybe 7 yrs...Back to the JB topic!!!!

To my understanding, that's incorrect.

People upgrading NOW, this month, have 6+ years seniority.

Pilots who are HIRED and started class this month as new-hires, with attrition and scheduled aircraft deliveries, are looking at 10+ years.

That information comes from friends who work there and were hired last year... They're paying pretty close attention for their own career plans.

 

[Whiskerbizkit]

And how long will a 2-3yr Captain at CAL or DAL sit reserve? Oh yeah, CAL first year pay was $29hr before 9/11.

As for a lateral move from a regional. Where else can you go where you dont take a paycut in the begining?

 

[johnsonrod]

And how long will a 2-3yr Captain at CAL or DAL sit reserve? Oh yeah, CAL first year pay was $29hr before 9/11.

As for a lateral move from a regional. Where else can you go where you dont take a paycut in the begining?

How about from Colgan to Fedex?

 

[Truckdriver]

To my understanding, that's incorrect.

People upgrading NOW, this month, have 6+ years seniority.

Pilots who are HIRED and started class this month as new-hires, with attrition and scheduled aircraft deliveries, are looking at 10+ years.

That information comes from friends who work there and were hired last year... They're paying pretty close attention for their own career plans.

However, even if you don't upgrade for 10 years at SWA you will be making over $128/hr on year 10 pay as an FO. Compare that to JetBlue FO's topping out at $87/hr on the 320. Not upgrading fast isn't such a big deal if you can make a living as an FO. I left and went to Delta where I'll be making $100/hr by year 5 as an FO. I would have been an FO at year 5 had I stayed at JetBlue and would have been making $76/hr. Couple that with not commuting to JFK and it isn't a tough decision. JetBlue was a great place to work, but when you see how much pay you are giving up and see that you could have a life not commuting to JFK, other options are looking better for the junior guys at JetBlue. Up the pay and get some good size bases other than JFK, and JetBlue would be a much better place to stay long term.

 

[Truckdriver]

And how long will a 2-3yr Captain at CAL or DAL sit reserve? Oh yeah, CAL first year pay was $29hr before 9/11.

As for a lateral move from a regional. Where else can you go where you dont take a paycut in the begining?

Reserve for quick upgrades at CAL and DAL will be a very long time. How long are guys sitting reserve right now that are upgrading on the 320? I think it is close to 2 years and will probably move close to 4 years for guys getting hired now. About 6 years to upgrade and 4 years on reserve puts holding a line as a 320 Captain at about 10 years. I'll bet guys getting hired right now at DAL will be lineholding Captains on the MD-88 in NYC before guys getting hired right now at JetBlue will be lineholding Captains on the 320 in JFK. I hope I'm wrong for all my buds at JetBlue, but the young age of the 320 Captain group coupled with slowing 320 growth doesn't paint a really great picture for junior 320 guys.

 

[AlbieF15]

I think the pragmatic guy will bid based on being an FO for 7-10 years. The next "best job" will be the best FO job. Age 60 changs have thrown a completely new variable into the mix. So...the 5 year upgrades at SWA and FDX are likely done. Ditto at JB, albeit for being larger company plus slower growth. Not raining on anyone's parade--just pointing out you need to be very pragmatic about the upgrade picture as you compare company A to company B.

 

[Spectre]

My math shows you average over 102 credit hours a month. Are you including your per diem?

I've already grossed $100K through the middle of July's paycheck. On average, there are many ways to exceed 100 hours credit per month with rigged trips.

Many pilots make even more than that as they bid RSA (Reserve availability) which works great when you live at base. This pays 4:12 credit per day whether you fly or not.

 

[bluejuice787]

I've already grossed $100K through the middle of July's paycheck. On average, there are many ways to exceed 100 hours credit per month with rigged trips.

Many pilots make even more than that as they bid RSA (Reserve availability) which works great when you live at base. This pays 4:12 credit per day whether you fly or not.

This is why we at B6 will never make crap...because some guy sweats his a$$ off to pick up 100 hrs of credit.

 

[Spectre]

Reserve for quick upgrades at CAL and DAL will be a very long time. How long are guys sitting reserve right now that are upgrading on the 320? I think it is close to 2 years and will probably move close to 4 years for guys getting hired now. About 6 years to upgrade and 4 years on reserve puts holding a line as a 320 Captain at about 10 years. I'll bet guys getting hired right now at DAL will be lineholding Captains on the MD-88 in NYC before guys getting hired right now at JetBlue will be lineholding Captains on the 320 in JFK. I hope I'm wrong for all my buds at JetBlue, but the young age of the 320 Captain group coupled with slowing 320 growth doesn't paint a really great picture for junior 320 guys.

At least A320 Capts at JetBlue on reserve only have to fly out of JFK. DAL pilots on reserve have to cover EWR, LGA, and JFK. How many B-737s and MD-88s is DAL buying the next few years?

 

[Scrapdog]

A couple of folks already hit on this but I think a pilot's success at JB was 100% based on timing. When JB was in its infancy 5 years ago getting hired was a goldmine with the blazing upgrade times from FO to CA (and of course I'm talking the 320 because there weren't 190's on campus). When those guys got in, the getting was good. A CA with 5 years seniority and premium pay after 70 hours is not a bad gig at all. Today is a whole different story. The #1 selling point at JB was the upgrade time - that is non-existent today. When 2 guys you've flown with are both 320 CA's and both have blue darts AND both tell you "don't come here" you know there are issues.

 

[Spectre]

This is why we at B6 will never make crap...because some guy sweats his a$$ off to pick up 100 hrs of credit.

Not really working my ass off. I bid all Orlando overnights last month and was home every night in July (104 hours credit) and 15 days off as I was able to get rid of 3 front end swaps.

There are many ways to exceed 100 hours without giving up quality of life. Ask around and you'll see many Capts and FOs on the bus exceed 100 hours credit/month.

I'd much rather work for a company that allows you to bid productivity. If you want the month off however, you can do that too. JetBlue's not perfect, but it's better from where I came from. At NWA, you have to fly over 80 hours to get premium pay.

 

[oldxfr8dog]

This is why we at B6 will never make crap...because some guy sweats his a$$ off to pick up 100 hrs of credit.

Exactly.

 

[Spectre]

A couple of folks already hit on this but I think a pilot's success at JB was 100% based on timing. When JB was in its infancy 5 years ago getting hired was a goldmine with the blazing upgrade times from FO to CA (and of course I'm talking the 320 because there weren't 190's on campus). When those guys got in, the getting was good. A CA with 5 years seniority and premium pay after 70 hours is not a bad gig at all. Today is a whole different story. The #1 selling point at JB was the upgrade time - that is non-existent today. When 2 guys you've flown with are both 320 CA's and both have blue darts AND both tell you "don't come here" you know there are issues.

...I can't resist. There are issues alright. They are giving you a message that they are saving their blue darts for someone better than you hehehehe.