JetBlue in full meltdown mode

[waveflyer]

The European airlines have been operating under rest rules that 117 was based on, FOR YEARS! Try doing some research before making crap up.

Thank you
Was going to say the same

Bubble perspective-Some of you guys are just dumb about anything different than what you're used to

 

[relief tube]

Check CNN.com...COO blaming 117, but ALPA is calling him out on it. Hilarious...and sad.

nice reasoning, coming from the airline that was the reason the tarmac delay program was started (jfk meltdown a few years ago).

such joy they have brought to this industry in their storied 15 years existence.....the airline whose pilots rely on everyone else to get to/from work.

 

[Saluki Dawg]

nice reasoning, coming from the airline that was the reason the tarmac delay program was started (jfk meltdown a few years ago).

such joy they have brought to this industry in their storied 15 years existence.....the airline whose pilots rely on everyone else to get to/from work.

14 Years!

 

[relief tube]

You base your premise on what?

case in point- I got to the hotel at 830pm (2 hours late tonight). a quick overnight that allows me to get home at 3pm tomorrow.

because of that delay, tomorrows flight will be 2 hours delayed getting out, and i miss the early flight home.

all because they think i need to be going to bed at 730pm.

who the F--- goes to bed before 9 or 930!

 

[gutshotdraw]

You point out the flaws in the old regs quite well. I'm glad to see the new regs account for a pilot's WOCL and adjust duty times to a pilots acclimated circadian rhythm.

Nice avoidance of the question.

WHOSE BODY CLOCK? I'm a west coast guy. If I get paired with an east coast guy, WHOSE clock do we use? We usually aren't in Geneva, or Singapore, or wherever to get acclimated to local time. It's a CHARLIE FOXTROT regulation and I can only hope that the goat rope implimentation we're seeing in 121 will keep the Fed at bay when it comes to 91K/135 ops.

 

[General Lee]

This is not true with an augmented crew. Very few international ops without augmented crews.

In fact, DL added a 3rd pilot to the JFK-DUB-JFK 3 day, even though it is shorter than 8 hours each way. The reasoning? They depart Dublin fairly early, maybe 9am (?), and since that is very early JFK time, they had to add an extra pilot for fatigue reasons. So, now an extra pilot gets to enjoy Dublin....


Bye Bye---General Lee

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

nice reasoning, coming from the airline that was the reason the tarmac delay program was started (jfk meltdown a few years ago).

such joy they have brought to this industry in their storied 15 years existence.....the airline whose pilots rely on everyone else to get to/from work.

Oh, and we never have any OAL guys on us...ok, got it...So then next time a offline pilot needs a ride to or from work, I'll just say "Well piss tube says we don't take anyone on us so I guess not"....We'll get right on that.....
Oh and may want to do a little more research on the delay program...Some bimbo who got stuck on a flight - not ours by the way - spearheaded the effort to get the FAA to do something about delays....

 

[BILL LUMBERG]

nice reasoning, coming from the airline that was the reason the tarmac delay program was started (jfk meltdown a few years ago).

such joy they have brought to this industry in their storied 15 years existence.....the airline whose pilots rely on everyone else to get to/from work.

Hey Throttle back Relieftube....

I have used jetblue many times to get to work. The crews have been great (but the process to get a jumpseat sucks) and they always go out of their way to help out.

Pointing out a jumpseat issue like above makes you look like a massive tool who lives in base.

 

[pilotpayne]

Oh, and we never have any OAL guys on us...ok, got it...So then next time a offline pilot needs a ride to or from work, I'll just say "Well piss tube says we don't take anyone on us so I guess not"....We'll get right on that.....
Oh and may want to do a little more research on the delay program...Some bimbo who got stuck on a flight - not ours by the way - spearheaded the effort to get the FAA to do something about delays....

No never.

I think every flight I have done from Bos to Iad or Ewr has had a United guy on it. When we did Iad Fll it was packed with United people.
I love these types of posts such a bunch of BS.

 

[FDJ2]

Nice avoidance of the question.

WHOSE BODY CLOCK? I'm a west coast guy. If I get paired with an east coast guy, WHOSE clock do we use? We usually aren't in Geneva, or Singapore, or wherever to get acclimated to local time. It's a CHARLIE FOXTROT regulation and I can only hope that the goat rope implimentation we're seeing in 121 will keep the Fed at bay when it comes to 91K/135 ops.

Each pilots'max FDP is determined by his home base time or acclimated time. Home base means the location designated by a certificate holder where a flightcrew member normally begins and ends his or her duty periods, for you as a west coast guy it would be different than your fellow east coast Crewmember. Each crew member's duty day is limited by his start time based on his home base time or acclimated time. The new regs take that into consideration the old did not. Once again you point out the significant improvement that FAR 117 represents.

 

[gutshotdraw]

If you think working MORE duty days every month and risking FAA violation for failing to properly calculate your horrendously complicated flight and duty limit every day is an improvement, I can't help you.

 

[N311HK]

Of course mgmt has now come forward and said if pilots don't comply with the extension then productivity and the pairings will suffer. Good thing we have awesome work rules to protect us. And the best part is mgmt assumed every pilot would extend hence the meltdown. Where heck is Frank?

 

[ATRCA]

I use JB almost exclusively to get to work. They're fantastic. I've always been treated well by JB crews both front and back of the house. Getting listed is a pain, but generally, it's worth the hassle. Lots of FL commuters need JB to get to NY.

 

[FDJ2]

If you think working MORE duty days every month and risking FAA violation for failing to properly calculate your horrendously complicated flight and duty limit every day is an improvement, I can't help you.

If you think ignoring human physiology and science based fatigue studies because you as a professional pilot you can not determine your max duty time from a simple table, because its too complicated for you, and worse yet you'd be willing to ignore the data to have an extra day off.....well I can't help you.

 

[waveflyer]

Gutshot, you do sound like you're just spring loaded to hate anything different.

What regulations do you fall under now?

Are you truly defending the old regs? Did you ever fly under the old ones? Ever fly to their limits month after ragged month for a year or more?

You sound like you're not that familiar with either the new or old

Again, I'm with FDJ- 117 is a much improved set of regs - but maybe I'm still scarred so much from the previous set of "rest regs" that I don't recognize the short comings.

What I like in particular is the flexibility to back two 3 days together-
I cannot count how many times 30-7 kept me from creating a much more rested schedule at SWA-
But then again, SWA schedules are, IMO, the best part of this gig. No reversing the sleep schedule. I generally end pairings more rested than when I began them (this week notwithstanding ).
So working 6 in a row isnt that bad when it means I can now have 9 off and get to Hawaii.

But here's what I also know. 117 wasn't designed to make sure Swa pilots get more rest. It's for commuter and any airline scheduling to the ragged limits.
And I DONT FORGET WHERE I CAME FROM. I've definitely flown schedules at places that were not safe or sustainable for the human body.

117 is a much needed very late improvement

 

[gutshotdraw]

If you think ignoring human physiology and science based fatigue studies because you as a professional pilot you can not determine your max duty time from a simple table, because its too complicated for you, and worse yet you'd be willing to ignore the data to have an extra day off.....well I can't help you.

You seem to ignore the fact that everybody reacts differently to fatigue and what causes it. Just because you call it "science" doesn't make 117 an appropriate solution.

 

[waveflyer]

You seem to ignore the fact that everybody reacts differently to fatigue and what causes it. Just because you call it "science" doesn't make 117 an appropriate solution.

RUFKM with this ^^^^


Do you really think you're special and not susceptible to fatigue?

 

[gutshotdraw]

Wave, I never said the old regs were adequate. I'm saying 117 is overly complicated, counterproductive, and will ultimately be shown to be ineffective.

ESPECIALLY in the 91K/135 world in which I operate, should 117 ever be adopted here as some of my colleagues hope.

There are simpler and more effective ways to deal with fatigue.

 

[gutshotdraw]

RUFKM with this ^^^^


Do you really think you're special and not susceptible to fatigue?

How did you make that leap? Everybody reacts differently and copes differently.

 

[waveflyer]

I disagree.

Can you point to a "simple" solution, and acknowledge that te body and our schedules can be quite complicated?