Jetblue Growth

[linepilot]

So the regional youngsters voted against ALPA and for a direct relationship with Ford&Harrison. Smart move.

My prediction is that they just voted away ANY hope of 320 upgrade, and quite possibly may have given away the 190 entirely. Why pay mainline rates for a regional jet? Forest Hills would love to undo the Neeleman legacy.

If you don't think jetblue plans to take advantage of the 10% alter-ego whipsaw, you're nuts. Even the attorneys in Dulles said that the 5 Docs that jetblue campaigned so hard for were a blueprint for what they wanted to do.
Why do you think we saw a propaganda post card in our mail boxes every day for two months?

Just watch these fools whine about SCOPE when we finally do vote for ALPA.
They'll be the first ones to trade away retiree medical or B-Funds just to secure their upgrade.

Enjoy the right seat and be sure to check all four of those latches on the cowling while your under the airplane.

You've wasted my time. I will be sure to waste yours. On a go forward basis.

 

[aircombat]

The “regional youngsters” have seen how worthless ALPA is at negotiating/retaining scope. I’ve personally been told by ALPA that they can’t negotiate scope because it isn’t a mandatory item under the RLA. You will get used to hearing from ALPA why they are powerless to do anything important. The threat of unionizing is much more powerful than a union on property and you don’t have to pay 2% for it. Unionize and an alter-ego is a certainty.

 

[shadesofBS]

The “regional youngsters” have seen how worthless ALPA is at negotiating/retaining scope. I’ve personally been told by ALPA that they can’t negotiate scope because it isn’t a mandatory item under the RLA. You will get used to hearing from ALPA why they are powerless to do anything important. The threat of unionizing is much more powerful than a union on property and you don’t have to pay 2% for it. Unionize and an alter-ego is a certainty.

Cool, so they're READY to stay in the right seat for 20 years at a second-tier LCC.

 

[linepilot]

The “regional youngsters” have seen how worthless ALPA is at negotiating/retaining scope. I’ve personally been told by ALPA that they can’t negotiate scope because it isn’t a mandatory item under the RLA. You will get used to hearing from ALPA why they are powerless to do anything important. The threat of unionizing is much more powerful than a union on property and you don’t have to pay 2% for it. Unionize and an alter-ego is a certainty.

Riiiiight.

And none of them will apply to ALPA carriers like Fedex, Delta, United, or even Airways when they finally run the numbers.

 

[BUDDHA145]

Funny, seams to me that "the regional youngsters" in JB is less than 25%. So how bout your seniors that are drinking company Kool-Aid!!!

 

[linepilot]

Funny, seams to me that "the regional youngsters" in JB is less than 25%. So how bout your seniors that are drinking company Kool-Aid!!!

They don't care about growth and most of them are on a list that is widely available. I encourage you to annoy them at every opportunity.

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

They don't care about growth and most of them are on a list that is widely available. I encourage you to annoy them at every opportunity.

Growth? Compare our 10 year growth to say AMR, DAL, UAL, LCC. Heck, AMR hasn't even hired in nearly 10 years! In that time period, we went from 1 airplane to 164 and currently have 40 A320 neo on order and converted 30/52 A-320 orders to A-321s.

Furthermore, why don't you take a 10-year snapshot at the unionized airline industry: Bankruptcies at all the legacies, furloughs abound, concessions, followed by two major mergers. Now, take a 10-year snapshot at Jetblue (a startup no-less). You have none of that. I'll take consistent, prudent growth resulting in a stable career over a long time vs having to keep a resume on hand for the next shake-up every 2-5 years.

There is a disconnect in this unionized industry that allows management all the power in the world to hit the "easy" button and effectively reset all the years of good-faith negotiated CBAs that don't hold the ink on the paper they're printed on when a company goes CH 7 or 11...

Go with the facts, not the rumors, and certainly not with your emotions-- the same one that lost the ALPA drive...

 

[linepilot]

Growth? Compare our 10 year growth to say AMR, DAL, UAL, LCC. Heck, AMR hasn't even hired in nearly 10 years! In that time period, we went from 1 airplane to 164 and currently have 40 A320 neo on order and converted 30/52 A-320 orders to A-321s.

Furthermore, why don't you take a 10-year snapshot at the unionized airline industry: Bankruptcies at all the legacies, furloughs abound, concessions, followed by two major mergers. Now, take a 10-year snapshot at Jetblue (a startup no-less). You have none of that. I'll take consistent, prudent growth resulting in a stable career over a long time vs having to keep a resume on hand for the next shake-up every 2-5 years.

There is a disconnect in this unionized industry that allows management all the power in the world to hit the "easy" button and effectively reset all the years of good-faith negotiated CBAs that don't hold the ink on the paper they're printed on when a company goes CH 7 or 11...

Go with the facts, not the rumors, and certainly not with your emotions-- the same one that lost the ALPA drive...

You failed to include retirements (at huge union airlines) and the excellent benefits that you will enjoy while you're moving quickly up the ladder of an aging pilot group. Contrast that with an agonizingly SLOW moving seniority list and the WORST benefits of the major airlines.

You clearly haven't run the numbers and you're NOT being realistic about an individual pilot's decision about how his numbers will look at age 65.

ADD TO THAT a totally insecure pilot group with absolutely NO protection in a transactional event, and I have no doubt that we are hiring pilots with every intention of moving on to BETTER NUMBERS.

Sorry to burst your pretty blue bubble.

 

[aircombat]

Riiiiight.

And none of them will apply to ALPA carriers like Fedex, Delta, United, or even Airways when they finally run the numbers.

I hope that they don't apply to those companies because they think that there is any type of scope protection. The thousands of pilots still on furlough would probably say that's unwise. The real reason that pilots will apply to those companies is their own egos not scope protection

 

[linepilot]

Que the bluebells who say you don't come to jetblue for money.

They'll tell you all about the fun and values you came here for in indoc and you'll see in your first year that it was contrived b#ll sh!t. The culture is a marketing creation.

This is Ornstein and Bedford and Kanodia all over again.

You'll see.

 

[linepilot]

I hope that they don't apply to those companies because they think that there is any type of scope protection. The thousands of pilots still on furlough would probably say that's unwise. The real reason that pilots will apply to those companies is their own egos not scope protection

It doesn't sound like you've run the numbers.

 

[shadesofBS]

Growth? Compare our 10 year growth to say AMR, DAL, UAL, LCC. Heck, AMR hasn't even hired in nearly 10 years! In that time period, we went from 1 airplane to 164 and currently have 40 A320 neo on order and converted 30/52 A-320 orders to A-321s.

Furthermore, why don't you take a 10-year snapshot at the unionized airline industry: Bankruptcies at all the legacies, furloughs abound, concessions, followed by two major mergers. Now, take a 10-year snapshot at Jetblue (a startup no-less). You have none of that. I'll take consistent, prudent growth resulting in a stable career over a long time vs having to keep a resume on hand for the next shake-up every 2-5 years.

There is a disconnect in this unionized industry that allows management all the power in the world to hit the "easy" button and effectively reset all the years of good-faith negotiated CBAs that don't hold the ink on the paper they're printed on when a company goes CH 7 or 11...

Go with the facts, not the rumors, and certainly not with your emotions-- the same one that lost the ALPA drive...

Why a 10 year snapshot?

My career is gonna be 35 years.

How about a 50 year snapshot?

And while we're at it, how about we include all non-union airlines? No? Don't like those "metrics?"

OK.

I'm looking at 10 years across the industry and even the bankrupt carriers have better pay and benefits than I do.

 

[n757st]

It doesn't sound like you've run the numbers.

For a guy slamming "regional youngsters", you seem to have been part of that regional crowd. FYI, most of the yes voters I've flown with.... Ex regional guys. Most of the no voters... Twa and airways guys.

 

[Fins Up]

For a guy slamming "regional youngsters", you seem to have been part of that regional crowd. FYI, most of the yes voters I've flown with.... Ex regional guys. Most of the no voters... Twa and airways guys.

I've flown with a couple TWA yes voters. Even they realize the necessity of a CBA and how little value our current arrangement has.

 

[xjhawk]

are they still not taking any new hires with PIC. they only ones hired that I have heard of lately is regional FO's.

 

[linepilot]

For a guy slamming "regional youngsters", you seem to have been part of that regional crowd. FYI, most of the yes voters I've flown with.... Ex regional guys. Most of the no voters... Twa and airways guys.

Most of the no voters I've flown with, are ex regional guys. That's because the TWA/Airways guys have all upgraded. But we KNEW about them. Those toads are a known quantity and they will be again. The list the BoBs distributed identifys each one of them.

I'm referring to the fresh no votes that jetblue will continue to cultivate down in Orlando.

And, YES, I did come up the hard way and I have seen the good and the bad of ALPA. But I have NEVER thought that there was any other way for a pilot than through the offices of the NMB with a well-funded union. I left Orlando in 2000 knowing full well that we would need a CBA.

Unfortunately many young minds need to see and experience bad decisions first hand. Like young pilot groups who absolutely have to try an in-house for a few years before they reluctantly agree that ALPA was always the better option.

 

[Fubijaakr]

I agree with n757st. I think if you could do an honest demographic vote analysis, you'd find it wasn't the "regional youngsters" who swung the vote.

Most likely it was the Senior Bubbas who are UAL/USAir furloughees that blame ALPA for their furloughs. The logical fallacy, of course, is the fact that ALPA doesn't furlough pilots, airline managers do.

But, I guess you have to have a target for your bitterness. At B6, it looks like its ALPA.

 

[linepilot]

I agree with n757st. I think if you could do an honest demographic vote analysis, you'd find it wasn't the "regional youngsters" who swung the vote.

Most likely it was the Senior Bubbas who are UAL/USAir furloughees that blame ALPA for their furloughs. The logical fallacy, of course, is the fact that ALPA doesn't furlough pilots, airline managers do.

But, I guess you have to have a target for your bitterness. At B6, it looks like its ALPA.

We've been dealing with the 600 or so TWA/Airways/Emery no voters since the organizing efforts began. They created the BoBs.

They've been a target for my bitterness since 2005. I'm just spreading the love now.

 

[Lake Alice]

Growth? Compare our 10 year growth to say AMR, DAL, UAL, LCC. Heck, AMR hasn't even hired in nearly 10 years! In that time period, we went from 1 airplane to 164 and currently have 40 A320 neo on order and converted 30/52 A-320 orders to A-321s.

Furthermore, why don't you take a 10-year snapshot at the unionized airline industry: Bankruptcies at all the legacies, furloughs abound, concessions, followed by two major mergers. Now, take a 10-year snapshot at Jetblue (a startup no-less). You have none of that. I'll take consistent, prudent growth resulting in a stable career over a long time vs having to keep a resume on hand for the next shake-up every 2-5 years.

There is a disconnect in this unionized industry that allows management all the power in the world to hit the "easy" button and effectively reset all the years of good-faith negotiated CBAs that don't hold the ink on the paper they're printed on when a company goes CH 7 or 11...

Go with the facts, not the rumors, and certainly not with your emotions-- the same one that lost the ALPA drive...

You have to understand BLue Bayou. Like many others he is happy to be here. Clueless as most and ignorant like no other. Every other legacy carrier in bankruptcy still has been work rules, retirement, insurance and protections EVEN in bankruptcy than Jetblue will ever have. Jetblue has grown in 10 years, like every other airline has. Jetblue has ordered planes in the past 10 years, like every other airline has. We have operated much the same as every other airline has only we do it for less pay, benefits, retirement, work rules, vacations time, sick time and protections. Blue Bayou is also the one of the pilots who called a chief pilot to report a pilot taxiing too slow. He is a management lackey. Even after the lawyers in DC specifically told our PVC that we are grossly unprotected with our 5 documents he continues to say "jetblue will take care of us" much like they have done the past 12 years.
Did you know that after 6 months on short term disability Jetblue makes you pay for your own health insurance? This is the type of company Jetblue is. A true people person company.

 

[B6Busdriver]

We've been dealing with the 600 or so TWA/Airways/Emery no voters since the organizing efforts began. They created the BoBs.

They've been a target for my bitterness since 2005. I'm just spreading the love now.

It's more than 600 and i am one of them. I am also an OC member, twice yes voter, and a no documents voter.