Jetblue Fancies Itself A "Career" Airline

[Dizel8]

But remember, there are about 20k plus people that would give their left nut to be where you are now.

First off, your number is way wrong, unless you want to include 250TT/50Multi pilots. It's no wonder we set up a pipeline for new pilots through UND/ERAU.

Secondly, last time the other majors were hiring, bigblue lost about 10% of the pilot group, they either chose recall or decided to be new hires elsewhere, even considering the odds. Rather telling.

If hired today at bigblue, based on retirements and projected fleet growth, it would take 15 years to make bottom reserve holding 190 CA. All while enjoying sub average comp/benefits, which are about to get even worse if the company has their way. Without a union, they will most certainly get their way!

Sadly, bigblue has, in my view, become a stepping stone airline, except for the very, very senior, but not surprisingly, I know a few of those looking to leave as well.

Go take a look at the seniority calculator, it finally exist, and then tell me, that we don't, at the very least, need to get at least average or conversely that anyone below the 50th percentile, shouldn't hurry up and leave.

 

[pilotyip]

Sadly, bigblue has, in my view, become a stepping stone airline, except for the very, very senior, but not surprisingly, I know a few of those looking to leave as well.

Go take a look at the seniority calculator, it finally exist, and then tell me, that we don't, at the very least, need to get at least average or conversely that anyone below the 50th percentile, shouldn't hurry up and leave.

yea just like the guys who bailed from SWA and FedEx for the dream jobs at DAL, AAL, etc. in 1999/2001. Or the guy in my reserve unit who left FedEx as a DA-20 F/O for the dream job at Braniff in 1978

 

[Dizel8]

Yip,

While these movements did happen, a friend of mine did it, I can't think of anyone from the other majors who have jumped ship to join JetBlue. As a matter of fact, the vast majority of those that came here from the majors, came because they were furloughed and were looking for any port in the storm. Not by choice by a long shot.

 

[aewanabe]

No, what it means is that it makes you, (and all of us) look like entitled, greedy, pathetic whiners when you are in the top 10% of wage earners in the richest nation in the world and you are pissing and moaning like you are a starving African kid eating a small bowl of rice once a day with flies on his eyeballs.

It disengenuous.

There is nothing that says we can't vote in a union and fight for improvements, but if you cant live a very comfortable life on $100k plus a year, you have a serious problem and need to learn to manage your money better. Stop the bitching and vote in the union. Let things get better from there. But remember, there are about 20k plus people that would give their left nut to be where you are now.

Nowhere in my posts have I bitched about my earnings here, so you're barking up the wrong tree there bud. And in my normal, non JB life I actually do something about the starving African orphans you reference. They have not one damned thing to do with my professional worth as a major airline pilot.

I also wasn't handed a damn thing on my way to this job. I earned every step of it, with the exception I'll acknowledge I was blessed to be born in the US. Your argument about the alleged 20k people that want my position is a complete non-sequitur.

 

[pilotyip]

wrong button

 

[pilotyip]

Yip,

While these movements did happen, a friend of mine did it, I can't think of anyone from the other majors who have jumped ship to join JetBlue. As a matter of fact, the vast majority of those that came here from the majors, came because they were furloughed and were looking for any port in the storm. Not by choice by a long shot.

I was looking at the movements as shots in the dark, leaving JB may or may not be a good move. The guys who left SWA in 2000 thought is was a good move to AAL. In hind sight they may have second thoughts. In my humble opinion, I think part of JB problems, much like SWA after 2001, is they got warped up in hiring theperfect guys, you know astronaut candidates. When they may have been better off hiring guys from KYIP without college degrees who would have thought they had died and gone to heaven.

Your argument about the alleged 20k people that want my position is a complete non-sequitur.

you are right it is only about 2000

 

[Dizel8]

Yip,

I didn't know you applied? All teasing aside, you are partly correct, inasmuch, that if a person came from a non sched,the commuters or perhaps a part 135 operator, then yes, at least for a while, then they would be thrilled. However, much like you, all people have a belief, that when they finally reach "the big show", that things will be pretty cool.

In some cases, they are, but in some cases, that "show" needs more Tigers, Lions and Elephants. Bigblue needs more of all three.

 

[fam62c]

No, what it means is that it makes you, (and all of us) look like entitled, greedy, pathetic whiners when you are in the top 10% of wage earners in the richest nation in the world and you are pissing and moaning like you are a starving African kid eating a small bowl of rice once a day with flies on his eyeballs.

It disengenuous.

There is nothing that says we can't vote in a union and fight for improvements, but if you cant live a very comfortable life on $100k plus a year, you have a serious problem and need to learn to manage your money better. Stop the bitching and vote in the union. Let things get better from there. But remember, there are about 20k plus people that would give their left nut to be where you are now.

No doubt, go show your paycheck to the average working person and see if they feel bad for you. If you are unhappy because there are people who have more than you do you will always be unhappy because somebody will always have more. You have it pretty darn good, if you want to try to make improvements that's fine but don't make it sound like you have so little. If you were tossed out onto the street tomorrow I'll bet your former JB job would look pretty good. I'm sorry that your company didn't keep every "promise" they made to you. Welcome to reality.

 

[Flyer1015]

If I was hired at JetBlue in 2000-2003, it'd be a career airline for me.

 

[Dizel8]

If I was hired at JetBlue in 2000-2003, it'd be a career airline for me.

And why is that?

 

[linepilot]

No, what it means is that it makes you, (and all of us) look like entitled, greedy, pathetic whiners when you are in the top 10% of wage earners in the richest nation in the world and you are pissing and moaning like you are a starving African kid eating a small bowl of rice once a day with flies on his eyeballs.

It disengenuous.

There is nothing that says we can't vote in a union and fight for improvements, but if you cant live a very comfortable life on $100k plus a year, you have a serious problem and need to learn to manage your money better. Stop the bitching and vote in the union. Let things get better from there. But remember, there are about 20k plus people that would give their left nut to be where you are now.

F#####CKKK YOUUUUUU! you little putzz. Preaching like an upitty little know it all. F#cking 32 year old sage, telling us to stop complaining. I would love to throttle your a$$ on the picket line you little dweeb.

There are financial goals that we set when we go forward in life with careers and families and major adjustments to the "paradigm" are seriously bad news. Your whiny little apologies for corporate america are NOT WELCOME.

You need to tolerate the negative publicity and shut the f#ck up you pathetic little snot.

I came to work for an airline with promises that were never kept. Apparently, you CHOSE to work at a third tier carrier so you need to accept the angst and the complaining. Think of it as the COST OF DOING BUSINESS when you work for a suck ass, lying airline being guided by Ford&Harrison every step of the way.

Poor little baby doesn't like people talking bad about his chosen airline.

If YOU don't like unhappy pilots, then why don't YOU go work somewhere else. If you have the skills to work at Southwest, you won't have to tolerate negative comments. If you want to stay here, then suck it up princess.

 

[pilotpayne]

f#####ckkk youuuuuu! You little putzz. Preaching like an upitty little know it all. F#cking 32 year old sage, telling us to stop complaining. I would love to throttle your a$$ on the picket line you little dweeb.

There are financial goals that we set when we go forward in life with careers and families and major adjustments to the "paradigm" are seriously bad news. Your whiny little apologies for corporate america are not welcome.

You need to tolerate the negative publicity and shut the f#ck up you pathetic little snot.

I came to work for an airline with promises that were never kept. Apparently, you chose to work at a third tier carrier so you need to accept the angst and the complaining. Think of it as the cost of doing business when you work for a suck ass, lying airline being guided by ford&harrison every step of the way.

Poor little baby doesn't like people talking bad about his chosen airline.

If you don't like unhappy pilots, then why don't you go work somewhere else. If you have the skills to work at southwest, you won't have to tolerate negative comments. If you want to stay here, then suck it up princess.

wow......

 

[CapnVegetto]

Please "Captain",

You might want to take a look at inflation, the increase in college tuition, the increase in medical expenses, the decrease in true retirement plans.

I have no doubt you Dad did all those things, and did them well, but remember inflation, if he made 50K in the 1980's that, purchase power wise,requires quite a bit more today. Find an inflation calculator, crunch the numbers, it'll all make sense.

The average income for the middle class, while perhaps constant in actual dollar pay out, has been eaten up by expenses in other areas.

In the mid '90's, I was making $50K flying for a tiny 135 on demand operator, yet, an FO for a major airline in some cases, barely cracks the 100K mark, yes there is something wrong with that picture.

However, having said that, if you are happy, then who am I to tell you different, it is after all your life.

Here is a nice example: "What cost $52000 in 1994 would cost $75496.39 in 2010."

Why don't you ask YIP what his CA's make today, what their medical insurance cost are, how much they get in retirement?

Here's some numbers for you bud:

Average median income in 2012 according to USAToday is about $51K. So you are complaining about someone who makes DOUBLE the average median income in this country.

DOUBLE.

You are also saying that a 'major airline copilot' that makes DOUBLE what a charter pilot makes is a bad thing?

Can you even hear yourself?

You wonder why the general public thinks airline pilots are a bunch of whiny overpaid babies? Case and point.

I don't care what YIP's pilots make any more than I care what FedEx pilots make, simply because I would rather kill myself than work there. I don't care how much they pay. I would be beyond miserable flying in the middle of the night. I'd rather shovel cowpies at a stockyard. No offense to anyone that works there....really. It's just not for me. I HATE the back side of the clock. I want to be in bed.

 

[CapnVegetto]

First off, your number is way wrong, unless you want to include 250TT/50Multi pilots. It's no wonder we set up a pipeline for new pilots through UND/ERAU.

Fine by me. I could care less where they get people. You're missing the point, though. If the company hires 250TT and 50ME pilots, they will still do the job, same as a fresh out of college engineer will work for less than an experienced one. Welcome to the new American business model. I'm not saying it's right, or that I like it. But that's the way it is.

Secondly, last time the other majors were hiring, bigblue lost about 10% of the pilot group, they either chose recall or decided to be new hires elsewhere, even considering the odds. Rather telling.

Good for them. I'll be among those that leave if the opportunity presents itself. I'm not disagreeing with you on any of these points. I just don't like people with six figure incomes pissing and moaning to me about how horrible their life is. It makes me want to fu-cking puke.

If hired today at bigblue, based on retirements and projected fleet growth, it would take 15 years to make bottom reserve holding 190 CA. All while enjoying sub average comp/benefits, which are about to get even worse if the company has their way. Without a union, they will most certainly get their way!

That sounds about right. I knew that coming in. If I'm stuck as an FO for 20 years, so be it. That's life dude. Life is unfair. See age 65, economy tanking, blah blah blah. $hit happens. Deal with it. I know for a fact if I am stuck here as an FO for 30 years I'll be just fine because of the lifestyle and location I choose to live. If at any point in time this becomes unviable, I'll quit. I'll get another flying job or do something else altogether. I have the means to do so. If a better opportunity presents itself in the near future, or I have a chance to vote a union on property and improve things at B6, I'm on board with that.

I just don't like people pissing and moaning like they are impoverished dregs of society when they are pulling down six figures. See the recurring theme here?

Sadly, bigblue has, in my view, become a stepping stone airline, except for the very, very senior, but not surprisingly, I know a few of those looking to leave as well.

I do not disagree. See above.

Go take a look at the seniority calculator, it finally exist, and then tell me, that we don't, at the very least, need to get at least average or conversely that anyone below the 50th percentile, shouldn't hurry up and leave

I have. 110 retirements (approximately) in the next 15 years. Not good for anybody junior. As long as Barger is running the show, growth will be at a snail's pace.

So what? I came here, it's my responsibility to deal with it. I knew that coming in. I will leave the second something better comes along. But, if I get stuck here, I'll be fine. I'm OK with it. Same thing I keep saying. I don't actually disagree with you on hardly anything. Yes, compensation is below average. Yes, retirement and benefits are. My question to you is this: If it is so bad, what the hell are you doing here? Don't give me a sob story about how you were lied to, I know what the pay rates were when B6 first showed up. You were promised this and promised that, blah blah blah. If you bought their BS it's your problem. I came here knowing what the payrates are now, and assuming I would NEVER get a raise. I still assume that. I don't give a crap what management says, I don't believe a damn thing until I see it. That's the best way to live these days.

As Dr. House says: Everybody lies.

QUOTE]


End of line.

 

[CapnVegetto]

Nowhere in my posts have I bitched about my earnings here, so you're barking up the wrong tree there bud. And in my normal, non JB life I actually do something about the starving African orphans you reference. They have not one damned thing to do with my professional worth as a major airline pilot.

I also wasn't handed a damn thing on my way to this job. I earned every step of it, with the exception I'll acknowledge I was blessed to be born in the US. Your argument about the alleged 20k people that want my position is a complete non-sequitur.

OK 2K people, whatever. If they open up the app window, they'll get another 2K plus from current regional FO's and some captains. The point is, there are tons of people out there that would love to be where you are, and as long as that is the case, compensation will be low. Why do you think guys make $18K a month overseas doing the same job? BECAUSE THEY CAN'T FIND PEOPLE. It's Economics 101 man, supply and demand. I know a lot of people on here don't like to hear the truth, but, that's how it is. The only way you're going to get any kind of a pay raise NOT based on supply and demand is by voting in a union and forcing wages and benefits up.

Earlier I was NOT accusing you of being a whiner. I didn't see you whining at all. You advocate for improvements, but you don't go 'poor little me, I only make $150K. How in the hell am I supposed to make 3 alimonly payments and still cover my Porsche? Waaaaaaahhhhh!!!!!!!!

Those are the guys I have a problem with. Not you.