Jetblue Fancies Itself A "Career" Airline

[UpNDownGuy]

Communication (including whining and lies) is critical in any fight as anyone whose experienced a Ford&Harrison propaganda blitz knows.

CapnV thinks we're having a debate and that credibility MEANS something on an anonymous message board.

What's priceless is that she fails to recognize that conversations with fellow pilots might not be the goal of every person who posts here or that she might be helping to achieve those "other" goals. :laugh:

Do what I do:

This message is hidden because CapnVegetto is on your ignore list.

I got tired of listening to her sanctimonious squealing a while ago.

 

[CapnVegetto]

Communication (including whining and lies) is critical in any fight as anyone whose experienced a Ford&Harrison propaganda blitz knows.

CapnV thinks we're having a debate and that credibility MEANS something on an anonymous message board.

What's priceless is that she fails to recognize that conversations with fellow pilots might not be the goal of every person who posts here or that she might be helping to achieve those "other" goals. :laugh:

What ignorant drivel.

I understand, you don't like truth. You are seeking validation for your stupidity from other stupid people.

That makes sense. It makes you just like the rest of the sheep. I get it.

 

[Lake Alice]

Truth is jetblue lies and spins the truth. From the 2006-07 PCG 1 and 2, the 2008 PCRB and beyond. These are facts. It's nothing new and it's certainly no different than any other airline management. The problem is JetBlue pilots have put management on some sort of pedestal and if the say it then it must be true. This incomprehensible logic is what separates us front the rest of the industry.
While we all work hard to ensure the success of our airlines other pilot groups are rewarded by negotiating better pay, benefits and retirement. We, on the other hand, are rewarded with rhetoric on values and free pizza.

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

The original pilot total compensation package as presented in my interview by Barger/Neeleman/Spain touted:

1. Pay that would parallel Southwest pilots.
2. Benefits that would parallel Southwest pilots.
3. Stock options and CSPP that would supplement our retirement.
4. Productive work rules that would provide opportunity.
5. A health plan that we would never have to worry about.
6. The freedom from arguing about anything. It was all just gonna be taken care of. We weren't going to need rules or complicated processes.

NONE of that manifested itself. We've been f#ckin the dog since 2003.

The ONLY thing that happened was a fast upgrade and a barrage of Ford & Harrison strategy and lies.

So in my best "big boy" words:

I will be a "net detractor" on a go forward basis.

Capiche?

LOL, when I got hired at American in 2001, they congratulated me on becoming a millionare! Of course that was before all the layoffs and they haven't HIRED one pilot since!!! Now look at where they are. You're foolish if you believed anything airline management (JBLU or any other) promised you! If you're nearly a 10-year Captain here and can't survive on $200+K a year, you need to seek financial help. I can truly say looking at my neighbors and families, we're the fortunate ones...

 

[$$$4nothin]

The original pilot total compensation package as presented in my interview by Barger/Neeleman/Spain touted:

1. Pay that would parallel Southwest pilots.
2. Benefits that would parallel Southwest pilots.
3. Stock options and CSPP that would supplement our retirement.
4. Productive work rules that would provide opportunity.
5. A health plan that we would never have to worry about.
6. The freedom from arguing about anything. It was all just gonna be taken care of. We weren't going to need rules or complicated processes.

NONE of that manifested itself. We've been f#ckin the dog since 2003.

The ONLY thing that happened was a fast upgrade and a barrage of Ford & Harrison strategy and lies.

So in my best "big boy" words:

I will be a "net detractor" on a go forward basis.

Capiche?

For all you guys that are just blowhards that do nothing but complain randomely and put smiley or frowny faces on you post. Read this. This is how you post facts that get a good point accros and give specific facts regarding why and how things need to change. Well done shades.

 

[Blue Dude]

If you're nearly a 10-year Captain here and can't survive on $200+K a year, you need to seek financial help.

It's not a matter of "surviving" on 200k a year. It's a matter of having Lucy yank the football away for years and finally having enough of it to call her out on it. Guys like you think that as long as we're "playing football", we're luckier than our friends and neighbors and should just shut up about broken promises, moving goalposts, and abdication of responsibility.

You are being manipulated. You are more interested in cashing checks today than holding accountable those who are shaping the path of your career tomorrow, and this is just how they want it. You are cheaper that way.

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

It's not a matter of "surviving" on 200k a year. It's a matter of having Lucy yank the football away for years and finally having enough of it to call her out on it. Guys like you think that as long as we're "playing football", we're luckier than our friends and neighbors and should just shut up about broken promises, moving goalposts, and abdication of responsibility.

You are being manipulated. You are more interested in cashing checks today than holding accountable those who are shaping the path of your career tomorrow, and this is just how they want it. You are cheaper that way.

Manipulation is only posting a portion of what I stated and running with that football... You need to look around at the airline industry and see all the broken promises (contracts) and careers. If I had stayed at American, I'd still be looking for a job today--11 years later. The only person you can count on to take care of you, is you!!! Unless you're one of those who believe they're entitled to everything.

Maybe you'd be better off at a Legacy carrier, because everything that's promised there is kept!!! Look, you're at successful upstart. What was SWA like at their 10 year point? Once you get that perspective, maybe you'd stop asking for what a 40-80 year company has.

Thankfully, many of these Legacy carriers will be hiring in the next 5-10 years. Hopefully, those who believe that life is so bad here will find greener pastures there.

 

[Blue Dude]

Manipulation is only posting a portion of what I stated and running with that football... You need to look around at the airline industry and see all the broken promises (contracts) and careers. If I had stayed at American, I'd still be looking for a job today--11 years later. The only person you can count on to take care of you, is you!!! Unless you're one of those who believe they're entitled to everything.

As an aside, none of my partial quote misrepresented your position so your charge of manipulation is groundless. Nice try but your attempted tie-in doesn't make sense.

The current PEA arrangement is acceptable if trust is involved, which was established early on. But every other airline, SWA included, has mechanisms in place to maintain accountability. That they don't succeed perfectly doesn't mean their method is inferior to blind trust. There is no mechanism here, and at first arguably it wasn't needed. But this is no longer 2003 and our leadership has changed character to the extent that it's unrecognizable. Therefore we need our own mechanism to promote (not ensure) accountability. I don't rely on promises being kept, only that when statements are made that they're backed up with action and that past statements intended to be taken as promises of action can't be flushed down the memory hole every time there's a change of leadership. In short, we need our leaders to have the integrity to stand by their own statements even when it's inconvenient to do so. If you have a better method than a CBA I'm all ears.

 

[Ski-N-Fly]

Getting back to the title of this thread, if one looks at all the domestic major airlines, it wasn't any of their ELTs that gave those pilots their current compensation and benefits. It was their pilots who attained the above mentioned through their ability to negotiate a CBA. The ONLY way B6 pilots are going to come close to achieving proper compensation and benefits is through a CBA. This is why we need a union on the property yesterday.

So instead of insulting each other, thereby driving a bigger wedge into this pilot group (which BTW is exactly what the F&H disciples at B6 orchestrated), perhaps we should actually grow a pair, unite, organize, and make this place a real destination/career airline. Bottom line......it is up to this pilot group to make this place a career. Management will never do it for us. They prove it every day with more "takeaways."

 

[Dizel8]

F&H does indeed strive on division, the good part is, from what I have seen and heard, the anti union group seems to grow smaller every day.

As for BB, he still has the ability to return to AA, and I am certain that he would never give that up!